Halo Reach: on Spike, NOW!

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Post by KrAzY on Mon Dec 14, 2009 4:32 pm

Duke Nukem had sound cues... he didn't "talk"


the rookie blatantly refuses to talk when being spoken to DIRECTLY... no human does that... its as if they are waiting that brief second for the person to talk to the screen like in those children shows...

the MC, although not a chatterbox, does respond to the people around him. we never see his face, but he reacts to his environment... he feels real because of this...


Gorden freeman and the rookie.... neither of them react to their environment... but at least freeman isn't part of a squad... and is acknowledged at least by other characters


the rookie is part of a squad... not only does he never acknowledge his orders, or team members... he is not even though about by the squad.... he never feels like part of the team.


the rookie is a terrible protagonist... less of a character and more of a camera that can sometimes shoot bullets while not standing around idly imagining what may have happened to his squad mates that he never even bothered to try contacting with his radio...
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Post by Ringleader on Mon Dec 14, 2009 4:40 pm

Maybe the rookie just wants to belong...
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Post by KrAzY on Mon Dec 14, 2009 4:47 pm

you have no clue what he wants... as he is a friggen robot the whole game


and vigil... you broght up the case of RPG characters...

well as i've seen... you get to design your RPG characters most of the time... customize what they wear... choose their armor and weapons...

because in an RPG the character is an avatar of the player.

in an FPS... a game where the character is NOT you... you should be given at least some insight into their motives. especially if the main character is part of a team...

they put the helmet on them so the player can put themselfs in the characters shoes... but if there is no character there to step into the shoes of... then all youve done is given the player a camera to walk around with.



now I don't know about you... but I at least like my characters to actually be characters... not nameless, faceless, emotionless robots who doesn't ever react to his environment or have the environment react to them...
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Post by XNate02 on Mon Dec 14, 2009 5:09 pm

Not every game is going to be perfect (infact none will be) and isnt going to reach very high standards. Again just enjoy it while Bungie is still making em ;) or try and be optomistic if that fails to get you in high spirits
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Post by KrAzY on Mon Dec 14, 2009 5:18 pm

I don't want it to fail


and i'm, not holding it at high standards... I am holding it at the standards that BUNGIE put it at with the Halo Trilogy and the books that THEY sanctioned
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Post by Gauz on Mon Dec 14, 2009 7:17 pm

XNate02 wrote:Not every game is going to be perfect (infact none will be) and isnt going to reach very high standards. Again just enjoy it while Bungie is still making em ;) or try and be optomistic if that fails to get you in high spirits
It doesn't have to be perfect, just have a main character that is actually a character.
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Post by Rotaretilbo on Mon Dec 14, 2009 7:33 pm

You realize, KrAzY, that RPGs aren't the only games that can make their character an avatar of the player, yes? However, I agree that the silent protagonist doesn't make sense if you're going to have cut scenes and the like.

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Post by Rasq'uire'laskar on Mon Dec 14, 2009 8:46 pm

What if... During one of the last cutscenes, his helmet came off... and while Dare was applying first aid, we see a gaping scar where his larynx should be?
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Post by CivBase on Mon Dec 14, 2009 8:47 pm

The main character is definitely a Spartan-III

If the other spartans are Spartan-IIs... they'd have had to be recently informed of the Spartan-III program as well as the events of Pegasi Delta. We know that ONI kept this information secret from them (until now?).

If the other spartans are Spartan-IIIs... that would mean that some were kept in reserve just in case. It wouldn't be the first major ONI cover-up.

Jorge seemed to know quite a bit, like that the main character survived Pegasi, yet the commander was so clueless that he had to check his file (and bypass ONI at that). Perhaps the commander shared the information with his squad earlier and Jorge was just now speculating?

The use of MJOLNIR armor and first encounters between the main character and the others suggests that the squad is full of Spartan-IIs with the Spartan-III recently integrated and given his own set... but who is the Spartan-III? Unless there was a reserve, which is a bit of a stretch, the only surviving Spartan-IIIs were Tom and Lucy.

Resulting Theory:
The main character is a Spartan-III, either Tom or Lucy, with his/her own brand new set of MJOLNIR armor. He/she is being integrated into a group of Spartan-IIs, who were just recently informed of the Spartan-III program as well as Pegasi Delta, in order to fight at Reach.

That would explain a little bit...

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Post by Dud Doodoo on Mon Dec 14, 2009 8:50 pm

I congratulate you on rewording my original post on bnet.

I don't mind you using it, just give credit, k?

I already proved that wrong. If you disagree with that then you my friend are the most ignorant person I have ever met. Also, one word: Neural Interface. Spartan-III's don't have the same ones as Spartan-IIs meaning what...they can't use MJOLNIR armor. Also go back and read my post about why you are wrong. If you don't believe that then you wouldn't believe a rock if it hit you in the face. I specifically proved you wrong on ALL perspectives and yet you deny it. If you actually went back and read all that and you still deny it than I completely give up on you kid. You will believe what you want no matter how many times you are proven wrong. Don't even bother posting unless you have a legitamate reason why they CAN use it besides, "they have the same augmentations."

You haven't proved anything thus far as you have not provided sufficient evidence and you are running on naught but your own speculation.

In fact, the only quotes I have seen on here did not satisfy the original challenge; that you had not shown that the S-IIIs were not augmented enough to wield such armor, and you responded with a quote made before S-IIIs came into existence that S-IIs were the only ones capable of harnessing MJOLNIR. The only other "proof" you provided was that MJOLNIR required augmentation because it was beyond any normal human being's ability to use it. This does not support your theory on S-IIIs falling short of this threshold, and you provided nothing besides general insults to dismiss the argument that S-IIIs received a stronger augmentation than S-IIs.

I will post using this as an argument, as you have not yet successfully dismissed it. The only reason you gave that supports your idea that spartan IIIs cannot wear MJOLNIR was concerning the neural interface. If my recollection is correct the book never said that the S-IIIs didn't receive this implant. (You are welcome to correct me, presuming you can provide a QUOTE)

Seeing as the ONLY limiting factor involving the usage of MJOLNIR which was referenced in the books was the requirement of augmentation, logically showing that the S-IIIs have this augmentation is a sufficient stand alone argument that needs no further elaboration. It is you who needs to refute this, not us.

Now, there was much talk of how the only survivors of Pegasi Delta were helping Kurt, correct? Where does this information come from? ONI, which would undoubtedly maintain a secret force for themselves, for they would not allow the ENTIRE spartan generation be wasted on a single suicide mission, would they? For all we know the main character is Ackerson's little pet spartan.

As for the others, I do not know. I do not dismiss either possibility, but if I had to guess I would say they were S-IIIs as well. Several seem to recognize him, notably Jorge who knew that he had fought on Pegasi just by looking at him. Someone else also made an observation earlier that he seemed to have been moving toward the skull faced spartan before the lady blocked him, as if he was going to speak to an old acquaintance. Another thing to note is that the Spartan IIs knew nothing of Pegasi, and it was extremely important that they didn't. How then, did Jorge know of it?

I will not resort to personal insults, but if I am to judge by your previous posts I will assume that your response will contain:

1.A statement relating to you already proving me wrong.
2.A flurry of personal insults relating to my stubbornness and stupidity, and said accusations being devoid of any specifics.
3.The utter lack of not only evidence from the books but an argument that directly refutes the ones which I have made.
4.A very indirect reference to your previous posts in which you supposedly have "proven" me to be incorrect. Again, these references will be devoid any specifics.

I do hope that it doesn't, it would be nice to know that I didn't take the time to write up this entire post only to respond to a moron. One can only hope...

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Post by Rasq'uire'laskar on Mon Dec 14, 2009 8:54 pm

I'm not sure... but I wouldn't be surprised if it was another S-III from Delta Pegasi. A baby nuke just went off, right? Was Tom and Lucy's search radar working? Was the search radar of the rest of the Spartans working?

I doubt ONI would keep the survivors a secret from Ackerson, but the survivors would probably be farmed out to other projects, like the Headhunters in "Halo: Evolutions".
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Post by Divine Virus on Mon Dec 14, 2009 10:19 pm

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Post by Dud Doodoo on Tue Dec 15, 2009 12:18 pm

Why bother posting that, IGN is retarded.

They didn't know what the fuck they were talking about, and did nothing but point out the obvious.

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Post by MrX on Tue Dec 15, 2009 12:23 pm

krazy gordon is a mute he doesnt refuse to talk
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Post by Divine Virus on Tue Dec 15, 2009 12:39 pm

Dud Doodoo wrote:Why bother posting that, IGN is retarded.

Because I can That's why.

If you don't like it or already knew that stuff then ignore it and post something better then just compaining about the video.
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Post by KrAzY on Tue Dec 15, 2009 2:20 pm

sargentbilco wrote:krazy gordon is a mute he doesnt refuse to talk

I wasn't talking about gordon... I was talking about the rookie
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Post by Gold Spartan on Tue Dec 15, 2009 2:25 pm

RockaHolicGameR wrote:
Dud Doodoo wrote:Why bother posting that, IGN is retarded.

Because I can That's why.

If you don't like it or already knew that stuff then ignore it and post something better then just compaining about the video.
More importantly, why only quote a sentence of his post if your going to get pissy about everything after the quoted part?
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Post by Divine Virus on Tue Dec 15, 2009 2:28 pm

Gold Spartan5 wrote:
RockaHolicGameR wrote:
Dud Doodoo wrote:Why bother posting that, IGN is retarded.

Because I can That's why.

If you don't like it or already knew that stuff then ignore it and post something better then just compaining about the video.
More importantly, why only quote a sentence of his post if your going to get pissy about everything after the quoted part?

Way more important, why do you care?
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Post by Gold Spartan on Tue Dec 15, 2009 2:37 pm

RockaHolicGameR wrote:
Gold Spartan5 wrote:
RockaHolicGameR wrote:
Dud Doodoo wrote:Why bother posting that, IGN is retarded.

Because I can That's why.

If you don't like it or already knew that stuff then ignore it and post something better then just compaining about the video.
More importantly, why only quote a sentence of his post if your going to get pissy about everything after the quoted part?

Way more important, why do you care?
Because IGN is shit.
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Post by Divine Virus on Tue Dec 15, 2009 2:39 pm

So don't watch the video genius.
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Post by Nocbl2 on Tue Dec 15, 2009 10:22 pm

Vigil wrote:
KrAzY wrote:
Vigil wrote:
KrAzY wrote:when did bungie fall into the "silent main character" archtype anyways?


the MC was fairly vocal... just because gordon freeman is popular and has less lines than the person who dies in scene one of a movie doesn't mean main characters shouldn't talk...

Krazy....where have you been?

The Protagonist from Marathon never talked, and the only interaction he had with anybody else was with the AI's like Durandal.

They've been doing the 'Strong Silent Type' years before Valve came along with the original Half-Life.

It's always been there thing with shooters.

Chief talks a little, but only when he's spoken directly too, it's to help with immersion.

The only exception I can think of was ONI, but that was because they were doing something completely different to their norm.


when marathon came out no main characters talked... in any game other than as a sound cue... now audio is advanced enough that they should be able to talk/... and as halo doesn't shy away from cutscenes there is absolutely no reason the characters shouldn't talk.

speechless characters aren't fun because they never feel real... speechless rookies are even worse as you don't feel real and you never actually feel like you are part of the team dynamic.

bungie is falling into the series of FPS pitfalls that are making the genre absolute shit






and death... you really feel more immersed by having a character that doesn't respond to the world around him? they are already removing the player from the character by having cutscenes... now they kill any possibility of the character feeling real by not having him react to the world around him... we already can't see his face, so we now have no way to read the emotions of the characters.

humans talk... robots don't... and the rookie didn't even talk when he was being spoken DIRECTLY to... he didn't comment when he was woken up by being punched in the face... he didn't comment when dare had no clue what his name was... fuck... he only screamed when he died in 1 in 4 deaths...

I didn't give a shit about the rookie... however, I did feel a connection to the Master Chief

I'd like to call that out as bull. Duke Nukem 3D was out around the same time as Marathon was, and Duke 3D was filled with the Protagonist talking. It was a design choice.

I wish I could find the quote, but Bungie explained why he doesn't talk that often and doesn't have a face. The Master Chief is there to serve as a empty shell which the player can place their own personality and feelings into to enjoy the game. He's nothing but a set of eyeballs that we see the Haloverse in. It's a technique that's been used in games for years, especially RPG'S as they give you a blank slate so you can imprint your personality onto the protagonist.

Again, Bungie did it first, and it's a very common mechanic which has been around for donkey's years. Why are you complaining about it now? IT'S ALWAYS BEEN LIKE THIS. It only changed because in a book, you need the Chief to have a personality, so Nylund created one and made John-117, and sure when I play the games now, I do think in that mindset, but It still retains my thoughts and personality as well.

The point of a silent character is to get YOU involved in the world, not the character. YOU ARE THE CHARACTER. That's why the always wear helmets and we never see their faces, their vessels to our personality.
Vigil is right. If you ever played the game Jupiter Strike, Mr. Pilot never talks. But I feel like I AM him.
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Post by Ringleader on Wed Dec 16, 2009 2:07 pm

Eh, do you thin that Bungie is really going in the right direction? Is Reach all it could be from a practical stance like could they do something simple to increase the games quality? Obviously yes.
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Post by TNine on Wed Dec 16, 2009 4:39 pm

I hope they don't screwup canon. But, i haven't seen anything totally against canon apart from the gameplay-improving armour seperation, and possibly the numbers of the Spartans. I'm worried about the lone wolf not knowing the others, but it could easily be a canonly possible Spartan-III substitution.
Overall, i trust Bungie (for now). We don't know enough about this game to totally call it shit.
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Post by RX on Wed Dec 16, 2009 6:08 pm

I liked the trailer. A lot. And I'm gonna get this game, canon errors or not ^^
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Post by XNate02 on Wed Dec 16, 2009 6:12 pm

RX wrote:I liked the trailer. A lot. And I'm gonna get this game, canon errors or not ^^

Finally an optomist emerges *applause*

+1 in humanity
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