Halo Reach: on Spike, NOW!

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Post by Dud Doodoo on Wed Dec 16, 2009 6:48 pm

I don't think I was being completely pessimistic, I was just pointing out the flaws.

I am looking forward to the game if that helps.

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Post by Gauz on Wed Dec 16, 2009 7:38 pm

I liked the trailer, it looked nice. You guys worry about canon way too much, not only, but bungie dictates what is and is not canon, not you guys. So bull shit to the game not being canon, I like them being different and having ba armour.
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Post by Rasq'uire'laskar on Wed Dec 16, 2009 9:09 pm

This just in:
Bungie has declared that the Master Chief likes to wear a hot pink thong (No, not a man-thong, and not anything else) when he's chilling out between missions...

And the Flood invaded the Milky Way for our Oil...

And Halo:CE never existed.

I know, Bungie would probably never do that, but I still think they should stick to what they said earlier.
I have few worries about this, and I'm excited that some S-IIIs might make it in, but I can't wait for an explanation about the new aircraft.
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Post by Dud Doodoo on Wed Dec 16, 2009 9:13 pm

I think the bitching about canon is entirely justified. It isn't that Bungie has no right to alter canon as they will, the problem is that they have already acknowledged the universe created by Nylund as canon. This universe is possibly one of the main driving factors involved with my being drawn into the series, and when Bungie goes back, contradicts and changes their own set canon, it destroys the integrity of said universe and thus the game loses appeal.

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Post by Felix on Wed Dec 16, 2009 9:16 pm

I am confused as to what people want right now. Do you guys want them to literally follow the book Fall of Reach word by word?
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Post by Rotaretilbo on Wed Dec 16, 2009 9:24 pm

I'd actually rather like this to follow the elements The Fall of Reach and First Strike set in place. If the game followed the books, that would be a huge nod to the fans who are literate and actually care about more than multiplayer. Conversely, completely destroying everything previously written is like taking a giant steaming dump on the fans who actually care about more than multiplayer.

And I'm with dud. While Halo: Combat Evolved was cool, the rest of the games have displayed subpar stories at best. It was the books that really drew me into the series. The intricate universe that Bungie and Nylund created was amazing to me. I used to be really proud of how Bungie and Nylund didn't contradict themselves when making new stuff. Then...well, then Microsoft bought the IP.

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Post by Felix on Wed Dec 16, 2009 9:28 pm

Rotaretilbo wrote:I'd actually rather like this to follow the elements The Fall of Reach and First Strike set in place. If the game followed the books, that would be a huge nod to the fans who are literate and actually care about more than multiplayer. Conversely, completely destroying everything previously written is like taking a giant steaming dump on the fans who actually care about more than multiplayer.

And I'm with dud. While Halo: Combat Evolved was cool, the rest of the games have displayed subpar stories at best. It was the books that really drew me into the series. The intricate universe that Bungie and Nylund created was amazing to me. I used to be really proud of how Bungie and Nylund didn't contradict themselves when making new stuff. Then...well, then Microsoft bought the IP.

I will argue more later on this, but for right now, I have to head off to bed. But I'll leave with this and finish it tomorrow(if I find time in school). I, personally, would see this as a bad idea. Finish tomorrow so don't stay too mad at me.
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Post by Rasq'uire'laskar on Wed Dec 16, 2009 9:32 pm

Felix wrote:I am confused as to what people want right now. Do you guys want them to literally follow the book Fall of Reach word by word?
No...

We just don't want them to go against the stuff said in FoR and FS.
Cut the Spartan deaths, cut out the "Everyman Spartans" (although loose-cannon SIIIs aren't a deal), and so on and so forth.

To a certain extent, if Nylund said something happened, the games and novels and adaptations should follow suit, like how Nylund has to follow the games and the subsequent novels.
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Post by Ringleader on Wed Dec 16, 2009 9:35 pm

Dud Doodoo wrote:I think the bitching about canon is entirely justified. It isn't that Bungie has no right to alter canon as they will, the problem is that they have already acknowledged the universe created by Nylund as canon. This universe is possibly one of the main driving factors involved with my being drawn into the series, and when Bungie goes back, contradicts and changes their own set canon, it destroys the integrity of said universe and thus the game loses appeal.

Especially Reach, I mean, what a pillar to the Haloverse. They should really apply themselves, like they were doing it for the first time, and not try to make it like Halo 3/ODST 1.5 with duel wielding, no scope super snipers. The game must be perfect, in order for Halo to regain some (perhaps even all) of its former glory.
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Post by Felix on Thu Dec 17, 2009 11:34 am

Rasq'uire'laskar wrote:
Felix wrote:I am confused as to what people want right now. Do you guys want them to literally follow the book Fall of Reach word by word?
No...

We just don't want them to go against the stuff said in FoR and FS.
Cut the Spartan deaths, cut out the "Everyman Spartans" (although loose-cannon SIIIs aren't a deal), and so on and so forth.

To a certain extent, if Nylund said something happened, the games and novels and adaptations should follow suit, like how Nylund has to follow the games and the subsequent novels.

So basically; don't do anything that wasn't in FoR or FS? While I don't fully agree with this, but I get what you mean. However, I, personally, would like to see them do something "new" that we haven't seen in the books. I want to experience new battles that we didn't know about on Reach. Sure, some old familiar ones would be nice, but I wouldn't like to play the book.

But that's just me.
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Post by Dud Doodoo on Thu Dec 17, 2009 12:21 pm

No, no one is suggesting that the games should not contain material that was not in the books, we are instead arguing that the games should not contradict the established canon which is set by the books.

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Post by Felix on Thu Dec 17, 2009 12:25 pm

Dud Doodoo wrote:No, no one is suggesting that the games should not contain material that was not in the books, we are instead arguing that the games should not contradict the established canon which is set by the books.

And that, I can partially agree with. If they do some "tweeks" to some established canon, I would not mind. However, if like halo wars, I will mind.
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Post by XNate02 on Thu Dec 17, 2009 2:44 pm

All im saying is dont freak out over the smallest of flaws and say youve given up on Reach.

Accept it and move forward and hope they dont screw up something big
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Post by Rotaretilbo on Thu Dec 17, 2009 3:23 pm

Felix wrote:So basically; don't do anything that wasn't in FoR or FS?

Actually, Rasq just wants them not to do anything that blatantly contradicts FoR and FS.

Felix wrote:While I don't fully agree with this, but I get what you mean. However, I, personally, would like to see them do something "new" that we haven't seen in the books. I want to experience new battles that we didn't know about on Reach. Sure, some old familiar ones would be nice, but I wouldn't like to play the book.

But that's just me.

Haven't we already gotten that with every Halo game so far? And tell me, how has that gone? Halo: Combat Evolved was a massive success, story-wise, and its been all downhill from there. Halo 2 doesn't have a proper ending, Halo 3 feels more like expensive DLC for Halo 2, Halo Wars is a complete failure, and Halo: ODST is somewhere on the subpar level between Halo 2 and Halo 3.

What we've never gotten was a specific nod to the fans: a specific reference to a novel. Besides, we don't really know the story of Beta Team (probably because, with current canon, they don't really exist) and we only somewhat know the stories of Gamma and Delta Teams. Setting it up where you play all four teams through the course of the game, and eventually leading into John returning to rescue the survivors would be an amazing nod to the hardcore fans. If you wanted something new, you shouldn't expect it from a game based on a battle that isn't new.

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Post by Gauz on Thu Dec 17, 2009 3:45 pm

I would like it if they decided to at least attempt to make it seem like the books and games are the same thing, because they might as well be totally different stories. Like Rot said, there are near zero refrences to the books, except for like the beggining of Halo 3. I think Staten is just jelous Smile
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Post by Felix on Thu Dec 17, 2009 3:47 pm

Rotaretilbo wrote:
Felix wrote:So basically; don't do anything that wasn't in FoR or FS?

Actually, Rasq just wants them not to do anything that blatantly contradicts FoR and FS.

Felix wrote:While I don't fully agree with this, but I get what you mean. However, I, personally, would like to see them do something "new" that we haven't seen in the books. I want to experience new battles that we didn't know about on Reach. Sure, some old familiar ones would be nice, but I wouldn't like to play the book.

But that's just me.

Haven't we already gotten that with every Halo game so far? And tell me, how has that gone? Halo: Combat Evolved was a massive success, story-wise, and its been all downhill from there. Halo 2 doesn't have a proper ending, Halo 3 feels more like expensive DLC for Halo 2, Halo Wars is a complete failure, and Halo: ODST is somewhere on the subpar level between Halo 2 and Halo 3.

What we've never gotten was a specific nod to the fans: a specific reference to a novel. Besides, we don't really know the story of Beta Team (probably because, with current canon, they don't really exist) and we only somewhat know the stories of Gamma and Delta Teams. Setting it up where you play all four teams through the course of the game, and eventually leading into John returning to rescue the survivors would be an amazing nod to the hardcore fans. If you wanted something new, you shouldn't expect it from a game based on a battle that isn't new.

What I meant to say was, I would like to find out more than what we know. Have a "new" battle that wasn't mentioned in the book(s), experience "new" characters, that we haven't seen much of or know about, and basically "different" things scattered about. The whole basic story can and should stay the same, but just how you experience it, different.

Do I want them to throw away canon? No, most certainitly not. I just don't want them to be, what's the word, confined to it.

That's my view on it.
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Post by Gauz on Thu Dec 17, 2009 3:51 pm

Bah, too much new stuff. I think they should focus on what already happened, rather than stuffing it so full of shit (Halo wars, the shit anime, other media). Saaaay, a battle from one of the other good media sources of Halo. Like the books.

An Onyx game? I dunno, i'd like to see how they make it interesting, as their only enemy was basically the Onyx sentinel. Battles from the books (other than FS) sound like a fun idea.
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Post by Felix on Thu Dec 17, 2009 3:58 pm

Gauz wrote:Bah, too much new stuff. I think they should focus on what already happened, rather than stuffing it so full of shit (Halo wars, the shit anime, other media). Saaaay, a battle from one of the other good media sources of Halo. Like the books.

An Onyx game? I dunno, i'd like to see how they make it interesting, as their only enemy was basically the Onyx sentinel. Battles from the books (other than FS) sound like a fun idea.

I like the anime Sad
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Post by Gauz on Thu Dec 17, 2009 4:01 pm

Really? I ddin't like.... the second episode... a lot. So yeah..
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Post by Felix on Thu Dec 17, 2009 4:04 pm

Gauz wrote:Really? I ddin't like.... the second episode... a lot. So yeah..

I thought it was alright. so... yeah...
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Post by Rasq'uire'laskar on Thu Dec 17, 2009 4:14 pm

Felix wrote:
Gauz wrote:Really? I ddin't like.... the second episode... a lot. So yeah..

I thought it was alright. so... yeah...
Were you blind?
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Post by Rotaretilbo on Thu Dec 17, 2009 4:21 pm

Rasq'uire'laskar wrote:
Felix wrote:I thought it was alright. so... yeah...
Were you blind?

More importantly, if you weren't before hand, were you blind afterwards?

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Post by Rasq'uire'laskar on Thu Dec 17, 2009 4:41 pm

And, given the script of The Package, perhaps deaf?
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Post by Ringleader on Thu Dec 17, 2009 4:44 pm

He he,
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Post by Felix on Thu Dec 17, 2009 5:08 pm

Rotaretilbo wrote:
Rasq'uire'laskar wrote:
Felix wrote:I thought it was alright. so... yeah...
Were you blind?

More importantly, if you weren't before hand, were you blind afterwards?

More importanitly, Do I have my own opinion on things? I guess I can't...
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