Halo Legends 'The Package' review.

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Post by Vigil on Tue Dec 08, 2009 11:59 am

CivBase wrote:The hair was worth a 9001 point detraction, though.

And she stopped a Brute chieftain's Hammer strike with one hand.

ONE HAND.

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Post by KrAzY on Tue Dec 08, 2009 12:00 pm

she also died
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Post by Vtrooper on Tue Dec 08, 2009 2:19 pm

and also vigil, part 2 is this saturday
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Post by Ringleader on Tue Dec 08, 2009 3:11 pm

The Package...
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Post by Vigil on Tue Dec 08, 2009 3:19 pm

Mereel wrote:and also vigil, part 2 is this saturday

It's not this saturday, but the saturday after.

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Post by Vtrooper on Tue Dec 08, 2009 3:20 pm

actually the about the package vide is next week
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Post by Vigil on Tue Dec 08, 2009 3:24 pm

I thought it was this week.

Ah well, I'll check on saturday...just in case.

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Post by Vtrooper on Tue Dec 08, 2009 3:26 pm

they do have a scedual(sp) on waypoint you know right?
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Post by Vigil on Tue Dec 08, 2009 3:28 pm


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Post by Vtrooper on Tue Dec 08, 2009 3:31 pm

i still think the next one is this week, its never a good idea to leave a up to 3 week gap
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Post by Vigil on Tue Dec 08, 2009 3:32 pm

You wish it was.

They need to do their explaining first.

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Post by Vtrooper on Tue Dec 08, 2009 3:33 pm

we'll see we'll see
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Post by Rotaretilbo on Tue Dec 08, 2009 10:27 pm

Vigil wrote:And she stopped a Brute chieftain's Hammer strike with one hand.

ONE HAND.

Which was probably the biggest infraction, and seems more like anime exaggeration than anything else.

KrAzY wrote:she also died

Actually, per Fall of Reach, if The Babysitter took place between 2542 and 2552, Cal's death did not break canon.

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Post by Vigil on Thu Dec 10, 2009 2:50 am

Rotaretilbo wrote:
Vigil wrote:And she stopped a Brute chieftain's Hammer strike with one hand.

ONE HAND.

Which was probably the biggest infraction, and seems more like anime exaggeration than anything else.

KrAzY wrote:she also died

Actually, per Fall of Reach, if The Babysitter took place between 2542 and 2552, Cal's death did not break canon.

What about the other 2 that died in this one, or Red Team in HW going MIA?

The numbers are getting pretty sketchy nowadays.

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Post by KrAzY on Thu Dec 10, 2009 7:29 am

Rotaretilbo wrote:
Vigil wrote:And she stopped a Brute chieftain's Hammer strike with one hand.

ONE HAND.

Which was probably the biggest infraction, and seems more like anime exaggeration than anything else.

KrAzY wrote:she also died

Actually, per Fall of Reach, if The Babysitter took place between 2542 and 2552, Cal's death did not break canon.

yes it does...

we know all of the spartans who weren't at reach....

so unless they changed one of the missing Spartans names to Cal... which they wouldn't have considering that they also seemed to think that brutes were being used as front line troops between 2542 and 2552...




don't try to defend these... the creators obviously aren't trying to maintain canon... making up excuses and "possibilities" isn't how canon is upheld... right now we have 4 dead spartans whose number effects the number of spartans present at reach... a number that I consider to have more weight than some fucking anime.
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Post by Vigil on Thu Dec 10, 2009 8:46 am

And don't forget the three we lost during the events of Halo Wars in 2531.

They won't be coming back, unless you want John knowing about the Flood.

By my count, there are 6 MIA/KIA Spartans they've added. (3 in Legends, 3 in HW)

Now there were two unnammed Spartans which were MIA beofre Reach.

So You can't really say it's canon, unless you start mixing and matching, which just doesn't make sense.

As for the Creators, all I say is this. Joesph Staten Originally said I love Bess wasn't canon. Frankie later said it was. Joesph now says he isn't sure if it fits or not.

Even they don't know what is canon and what isn't.

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Post by Rotaretilbo on Thu Dec 10, 2009 4:32 pm

Vigil wrote:What about the other 2 that died in this one, or Red Team in HW going MIA?

The numbers are getting pretty sketchy nowadays.

If this occurred between 2542 and 2552, one of them is accounted for in FoR. The other is not. But frankly, I wouldn't even try to rationalize this one. The Package has a clear disregard for canon.

KrAzY wrote:yes it does...

we know all of the spartans who weren't at reach....

Quite the contrary.

"Assembled here tonight," she said, "are all surviving Spartans save three, who are engaged on fields of combat too distant to be easily recalled. In the last decade of combat there have only been three KIAs and one Spartan too wounded to continue active duty. You are to be commended for having the best operational record of any unit in the fleet." -Halo: The Fall of Reach page 240

So, we can gather several things from this passage. First, there are at least eight Spartans not currently in attendance at this meeting (all of whom go on to fight at Reach). These eight are the three "KIA" between 2542 and 2552, the WIA, Gray Team, and Sam (was KIA prior to 2542). So, if we assume that these are the only people not in attendance, then there are 25 who fight on Reach, of whom 22 fight planetside (as John, Linda, and James take the space mission). Of those 22, 4 died during the landing, 3 became Team Alpha and attacked the Covenant base,
6 became Team Beta and defended the generators, 3 became Team Gamma and went to secure Vice Admiral Whitcomb, and 6 became Team Delta and went to secure CASTLE Base.

"Despite the UNSC policy of listing every Spartan as missing or wounded in action when killed," Dr. Halsey continued, "I have kept track of those actually 'missing.' There was Randall in 2532, Kurt in 2531, and Sheila in 2544." -Halo: Ghosts of Onyx page 173

A lot of fans have drawn a connection between this and the three KIA mentioned in the passage from The Fall of Reach. However, for the moment, let's assume that they are not. This adds a two more members not present at Reach (Kurt and Randal both went MIA prior to 2542), and also reveals a second member of the KIA group (Sheila was killed after 2542, and now joins Cal among the KIA group), meaning only 20 were planetside, and Team Beta is down to 4 members (the number was not specified, but must be greater than 3).

KrAzY wrote:so unless they changed one of the missing Spartans names to Cal... which they wouldn't have considering that they also seemed to think that brutes were being used as front line troops between 2542 and 2552...

We all know Bungie retconned Brutes to be part of the war. Annoying, yes, but Bungie did it, not some third party.

KrAzY wrote:don't try to defend these... the creators obviously aren't trying to maintain canon... making up excuses and "possibilities" isn't how canon is upheld... right now we have 4 dead spartans whose number effects the number of spartans present at reach... a number that I consider to have more weight than some fucking anime.

Well, technically speaking, the number Nylund gives us in FS is 27 planetside, which is numerically impossible, even if we assume that the three MIA in GoO are the three KIA in FoR. 33-Reach Station Gamma (John, Linda, James)-Gray Team (Adriana, Jai, Mike)-KIA (Sheila, Kurt, Randall)-Sam-WIA (Maria)=22.

And I'm not defending Halo Legends as a whole. It is terrible, and I hate it. I am simply saying that one particular episode (as each is made by a different studio) isn't nearly as terrible as some of the other episodes.

Vigil wrote:And don't forget the three we lost during the events of Halo Wars in 2531.

I like to pretend that Halo Wars doesn't exist. It's what I plan to do with pretty much all of Halo Legends after I'm done ripping its credibility to shreds.

Vigil wrote:So You can't really say it's canon, unless you start mixing and matching, which just doesn't make sense.

Mixing and matching makes perfect sense: If it abides by canon, it's cool. If it does not, it isn't cool, and we ignore its existence.

Vigil wrote:As for the Creators, all I say is this. Joesph Staten Originally said I love Bess wasn't canon. Frankie later said it was. Joesph now says he isn't sure if it fits or not.

Even they don't know what is canon and what isn't.

The main reason ilovebees doesn't fit anymore is because Bungie didn't tell them that there weren't going to be new SPARTAN-II classes, and Nylund had no washouts of any of the SPARTAN-III classes. The year Jasmine was kidnapped fits perfectly with SPARTAN-III Beta Company, though. She was kidnapped in 2537, the very same year Beta Company was authorized. Janissary probably would have been part of Gamma Company, were it not for her dad preventing her from being kidnapped.

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Post by KrAzY on Thu Dec 10, 2009 4:49 pm

yes... but people saw Cal die... so if cal was shiela she wouldn't have been a true MIA... as Halsey would have found out she had died from the debrief
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Post by Rasq'uire'laskar on Thu Dec 10, 2009 5:01 pm

Rotaretilbo wrote:
Vigil wrote:What about the other 2 that died in this one, or Red Team in HW going MIA?

The numbers are getting pretty sketchy nowadays.

If this occurred between 2542 and 2552, one of them is accounted for in FoR. The other is not. But frankly, I wouldn't even try to rationalize this one. The Package has a clear disregard for canon.
Agreed.

Rotaretilbo wrote:
KrAzY wrote:so unless they changed one of the missing Spartans names to Cal... which they wouldn't have considering that they also seemed to think that brutes were being used as front line troops between 2542 and 2552...
We all know Bungie retconned Brutes to be part of the war. Annoying, yes, but Bungie did it, not some third party.
Back in the Halo 2 manual it reports that, although they are lesser-known, their numbers have increased considerably in recent engagements.
I'm willing to read "In the past decade" into that statement, but to the extent that Brutes were used in "The Package" and Halo Wars is simply inexcusable.

Rotaretilbo wrote:
KrAzY wrote:don't try to defend these... the creators obviously aren't trying to maintain canon... making up excuses and "possibilities" isn't how canon is upheld... right now we have 4 dead spartans whose number effects the number of spartans present at reach... a number that I consider to have more weight than some fucking anime.
Well, technically speaking, the number Nylund gives us in FS is 27 planetside, which is numerically impossible, even if we assume that the three MIA in GoO are the three KIA in FoR. 33-Reach Station Gamma (John, Linda, James)-Gray Team (Adriana, Jai, Mike)-KIA (Sheila, Kurt, Randall)-Sam-WIA (Maria)=22.
Another thing I'd like to point out: Apparently, some of the stuff written by Nylund didn't sit well with Bungie. Namely, Johnson's Boren's Syndrome being an explanation for his Flood immunity, introduction dates of the more common Covenant species, and a certain plot-hole-warping Forerunner Chrystal.

I just wish they'd leave the rest of the stuff alone.

Rotaretilbo wrote:
Vigil wrote:So You can't really say it's canon, unless you start mixing and matching, which just doesn't make sense.

Mixing and matching makes perfect sense: If it abides by canon, it's cool. If it does not, it isn't cool, and we ignore its existence.
Isn't that what we've been doing since Age of Spaceology?

Vigil wrote:As for the Creators, all I say is this. Joesph Staten Originally said I love Bess wasn't canon. Frankie later said it was. Joesph now says he isn't sure if it fits or not.

Even they don't know what is canon and what isn't.
In all fairness, what Joseph Statten said was, if it was up to him ilovebees wouldn't make the cut.
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Post by Rotaretilbo on Thu Dec 10, 2009 9:10 pm

KrAzY wrote:yes... but people saw Cal die... so if cal was shiela she wouldn't have been a true MIA... as Halsey would have found out she had died from the debrief

...I'm not saying Cal is Sheila. I'm saying that Randall and Kurt aren't part of the three KIA Halsey mentions in FoR any more than Sam is, and therefore, there were two unnamed Spartans that were killed sometime between 2542 and 2552, one of which could be Cal. I doubt they thought of this when they wrote Halo Legends, but in this regard, they caught a lucky break.

Rasq'uire'laskar wrote:Another thing I'd like to point out: Apparently, some of the stuff written by Nylund didn't sit well with Bungie. Namely, Johnson's Boren's Syndrome being an explanation for his Flood immunity, introduction dates of the more common Covenant species, and a certain plot-hole-warping Forerunner Chrystal.

I just wish they'd leave the rest of the stuff alone.

What's funny is that Bungie pretty much dictated these things, though I'd note that the Elite encounter at Reach Station Gamma was not a first encounter for John-117, but was described like one because it was the first time the reader had encountered an Elite.

Rasq'uire'laskar wrote:In all fairness, what Joseph Statten said was, if it was up to him ilovebees wouldn't make the cut.

Just means Bungie should play a bigger role in story development when third parties make content for them.

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Post by Rasq'uire'laskar on Thu Dec 10, 2009 9:52 pm

Rotaretilbo wrote:
Rasq'uire'laskar wrote:Another thing I'd like to point out: Apparently, some of the stuff written by Nylund didn't sit well with Bungie. Namely, Johnson's Boren's Syndrome being an explanation for his Flood immunity, introduction dates of the more common Covenant species, and a certain plot-hole-warping Forerunner Chrystal.

I just wish they'd leave the rest of the stuff alone.
What's funny is that Bungie pretty much dictated these things, though I'd note that the Elite encounter at Reach Station Gamma was not a first encounter for John-117, but was described like one because it was the first time the reader had encountered an Elite.
I believe Nylund had a lot more freedom than that with GoO and FS.

As for FoR... he had seven weeks to write that. They didn't have time to go over it.
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Post by Rotaretilbo on Fri Dec 11, 2009 12:09 am

Rasq'uire'laskar wrote:I believe Nylund had a lot more freedom than that with GoO and FS.

As for FoR... he had seven weeks to write that. They didn't have time to go over it.

That's ironic, considering most believe FoR to be his best work within the Haloverse.

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Post by Vigil on Fri Dec 11, 2009 1:36 am

Rotaretilbo wrote:
Rasq'uire'laskar wrote:I believe Nylund had a lot more freedom than that with GoO and FS.

As for FoR... he had seven weeks to write that. They didn't have time to go over it.

That's ironic, considering most believe FoR to be his best work within the Haloverse.

Indeed.

First Strike and Ghosts of Onyx were still damn good though.

Haven't read what his part of Halo Evolutions yet, hopefully it will be good.

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Post by Vigil on Sat Dec 12, 2009 6:45 am

Edited the original post with Part 2.

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Post by Angatar on Sat Dec 12, 2009 7:04 am

I think The Babysitter was the best one, I mean sure there was funky hair, weird armor, and one Spartan death. That's better than the Covenant kidnapping a human, two Spartan deaths, X-Wing Motorbikes, Shields, and Star Wars-esque battles.

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