Starcraft II: Heart of the Swarm

Looks to me like Terran basically wins end game by default.

Terran wins all stages of the game by default right now.

Opening cinematic has been released.

That video must have been made in the opening days of the beta when Zerg was actually able to beat Terran.

Ascendant Justice wrote:That video must have been made in the opening days of the beta when Zerg was actually able to beat Terran.

Don't make me pull out the pro HOTS games AJ. Terran are not as invincible as you claim them to be.

You can tell it was made during the early beta because Ultra burrow charge hadn't been cut yet.

And how are the pros dealing with six minute super siege tank contain these days?

Micro, Turns out zerg can do that.

Rotaretilbo wrote:You can tell it was made during the early beta because Ultra burrow charge hadn't been cut yet.

And how are the pros dealing with six minute super siege tank contain these days?

Protoss OP.

And before you say, he could of rushed with only tanks earlier, all I have to say is Mothership core+ Nexus cannon would deal with it pretty quick.

If I find a Zerg game I'll let you know. Queens seem to be effective in denying reapers with a few early spines in your base.

I think it has more to do with Dragon trying to turtle when Terran absolutely rule the early and mid game. He let WhiteRa take four bases but only took two himself. And that Oracle harass early really put Dragon behind. Of course, Husky said himself at the beginning the the games Dragon lost were primarily due to WhiteRa's creativity whereas the games WhiteRa lost were primarily due to macro. In this game, WhiteRa seems like the better player, over all.

However, I will admit that I've not focused much on Protoss, as I'm more concerned with Zerg being nerfed into the ground, and all the buffs to Terran.

Protoss has been eerily untouched for the most part in the HotS patches......

And in regards to the video again, Terran made the mistake of turtling in his base while zerg got map control and ultras in the end. Terran then thought that some late game battlecruisers would help him but they didnt.

But as we mentioned, the game was pre-patch. Zerg don't have a way to deal with Siege Tanks anymore, because Infestors were nerfed into the ground and Ultralisks don't have burrow charge anymore.

I serve the Queen of Blades /bows





The balls on that viking trying to take on that Ultra huh?

Rotaretilbo wrote:But as we mentioned, the game was pre-patch. Zerg don't have a way to deal with Siege Tanks anymore, because Infestors were nerfed into the ground and Ultralisks don't have burrow charge anymore.

What part of 50 damage to all didn't you get? Sure a bioball can micro away from it, but now they take significantly higher losses doing so when the Ultra hits them.

Oh and Vipers make tanks useless with binding cloud. Or if you're so desperate to kill tanks use abduct with your Vipers to drag them to your Ultras.

I'm still interested to see how Zerg can hold off an early tank rush, as I feel that is the hardest for Zerg to survive, but into the mid and late game, Zerg are still able to stay on even footing.

Vigil wrote:What part of 50 damage to all didn't you get? Sure a bioball can micro away from it, but now they take significantly higher losses doing so when the Ultra hits them.

First of all, it's 35 damage to all, not 50. Besides, Ultras still get kited all day every day by bio balls. All it takes is one Marauder with concussive and Ultras are useless. Meanwhile, despite what the video shows, Siege Tanks are quite cost effective against Ultralisks. Burrow charge was basically Zerg's response to Siege Tank lines.

Vigil wrote:Oh and Vipers make tanks useless with binding cloud. Or if you're so desperate to kill tanks use abduct with your Vipers to drag them to your Ultras.

While Viper cloud is somewhat effective, it only works against Terran stupid enough to not spread their tanks slightly, and abduct was a channel last time I checked, so it's not nearly as effective.

Vigil wrote:I'm still interested to see how Zerg can hold off an early tank rush, as I feel that is the hardest for Zerg to survive, but into the mid and late game, Zerg are still able to stay on even footing.

I'm interested to see how Zerg deals with drops mid game, given that Medivacs can now outrun Mutalisks with a free ability, and I'd also like to know how Zerg deals with bio ball backed up by Siege Tanks and Vikings, maybe with a few Battlecruisers thrown in for Yamamoto. Cost for cost, I can't think of how Zerg would really deal with this. Fungal is worthless, Infested Marines are worthless, Neural Parasite has been worthless for ages, so you might as well not even bother with Infestors anymore. Brood Lords would be nice if they weren't among the slowest and most vulnerable unit in the game; you're better off trying to base trade with them, but oh wait, Terran can just lift off their buildings. Locusts are melee units now, so using Swarm Hosts is like using Zerglings without speed late game. Ultralisks don't have burrow charge anymore, so they're only slightly more useful than they were before, and they were pretty much completely and utterly useless before. Mutalisks are still too glass to ever be used in any kind of straight fight. Zerglings are still incredibly vulnerable to Hellbats, which are part of bio ball now, since they can be healed by Medivacs. That really leaves us with Roaches and Hydralisks, except that bio ball with Siege Tank support will shit ALL OVER Roach/Hydra. It's gotten to the point where Ultras, which are no longer much better than they were in WoL, are now one of our mainstays, because we just don't have anything else.

Can't believe HotS is less than two weeks out and this thread is dead.

I think it's just a lack of excitement and no hyping at all on Blizzard's part. Everyone was excited for SCII because we hadn't had a new one since before I was born. I guess everyone just forgot.

Hurts to say but, I agree with Nocbl here.



Plus we all aren't the biggest SC players.

It's frustrating for me, because the story looks like lots of fun, but the moulteeplayir balance changes they've added have basically trashed my favorite race worse than it was in the last game.

Ehh HOTS never really excited me that much, Anything i hear in regards to the story in Hots is just meh. I stopped caring after Zeratul's Flashbacks.

And in terms of moulteeplayir, I just play custom games, Hots is adding a couple of casters, *Shrug* Nothing as big as adding a Medic or Dark Archon.

I preordered the game back in Christmas so I will be playing it.

Just waiting on release and hoping they bring Zerg back to it's original Glory.


ALL HAIL THE QUEEN OF BLADES.

I'm trying to decide whether I can financially support Blizzard by paying money for HotS after they gave Siege Tanks siege mode for free, basically gave Terran fast Firebats, gave Medivacs an ability to outrun Mutalisks, and then nerfed Infestors into the ground and called it balanced.

You know Hellbats cant transform until Armory tech now right?

Also as far as i remember if your not interested in the single player the multi-player of HOTS is free for people who have Wings of Liberty. Both games can switch between the two multi-player builds for matchmaking. (So you can continue to play WoL multi-player and have the HOTS campaign)

Rotaretilbo wrote:I'm trying to decide whether I can financially support Blizzard by paying money for HotS after they gave Siege Tanks siege mode for free, basically gave Terran fast Firebats, gave Medivacs an ability to outrun Mutalisks, and then nerfed Infestors into the ground and called it balanced.

so you know its unbalanced from first hand experience? or just wild speculation? Last time I checked they have an entire sport in Korea hinging on their success, and they bring many professional players in to assist.

But no, you're right. It's probably horribly unbalanced.

I guess that makes them above sin then and have a Godly ability to do no wrong when it comes to balancing.

Lord Pheonix wrote:I guess that makes them above sin then and have a Godly ability to do no wrong when it comes to balancing.

Oh, thats not entirely the point I was making.

The point was that they have certain things at their disposal to determine a good balance that you, not being an employee or paid consultant, simply don't have. Until it's in your hands and you've taken it through the ringer, you're mostly just speculating.

It could just APPEAR unbalanced, because it doesn't cater to certain strategies in a way that you're familiar with. Perhaps some adaptation is required?