Is Obama a commie?

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Post by C-Slay on Tue May 11, 2010 7:22 am

With the way america's government has been working i've been led to think the Obama supports communism. I think he is! Let's debate it!
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Post by CivBase on Tue May 11, 2010 11:10 am

I don't think he thinks he's a commie... but I think that his system of choice much nearer reflects that of communism than capitalism (particularly, socialism).

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Post by Gauz on Tue May 11, 2010 2:31 pm

No.


He's in the Donkey Party.


He's a democrat.


Not a communist.


/overanalyze
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Post by Indecisive One. on Tue May 11, 2010 4:12 pm

My dad is hates Obama. Probably cause hes appointed tsars to positions in which they rank above the pres and that he hasn't lived up to a single campaign promise.
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Post by TNine on Tue May 11, 2010 5:37 pm

Firstly, it's socialism, not communism. Socialism is a normal and fantastic system in the world. Communism unfortunately fails. Actually, with healthcare, i don't know, but i'm pretty sure it's socialism.

Secondly, too much capitalism is exactly what got us into this reccession, it's all about balance. Sometimes, more socialism is necessary, sometimes more capitlasim. With modern day healthcare, socialism is the way to go.
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Post by A_Bearded_Swede on Tue May 11, 2010 6:44 pm

Obama is a commie when i start caring about stupid opinions.

@TNine
I believe the socialistic qualities that he wants is with health care which is a great idea.

Look how awesome Germany's health care system is. =D

The only thing that is somewhat negative is the 50% taken out of check with taxes. =(

BUT, you can go to any doctor, at any hospital or office, at anytime and just have to pay a $10 copay which is freakin A.

Why can't America do that. >.>

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Post by Indecisive One. on Wed May 12, 2010 5:35 am

Baconsen wrote:Obama is a commie when i start caring about stupid opinions.

@TNine
I believe the socialistic qualities that he wants is with health care which is a great idea.

Look how awesome Germany's health care system is. =D

The only thing that is somewhat negative is the 50% taken out of check with taxes. =(

BUT, you can go to any doctor, at any hospital or office, at anytime and just have to pay a $10 copay which is freakin A.

Why can't America do that. >.>
Most of this was nice... minus the 50% percent thing. Is that true? If so then were heading more trouble before the end begins.
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Post by TNine on Wed May 12, 2010 4:12 pm

Indecisive One. wrote:
Baconsen wrote:Obama is a commie when i start caring about stupid opinions.

@TNine
I believe the socialistic qualities that he wants is with health care which is a great idea.

Look how awesome Germany's health care system is. =D

The only thing that is somewhat negative is the 50% taken out of check with taxes. =(

BUT, you can go to any doctor, at any hospital or office, at anytime and just have to pay a $10 copay which is freakin A.

Why can't America do that. >.>
Most of this was nice... minus the 50% percent thing. Is that true? If so then were heading more trouble before the end begins.
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Post by A_Bearded_Swede on Wed May 12, 2010 5:47 pm

Indecisive One. wrote:
Baconsen wrote:Obama is a commie when i start caring about stupid opinions.

@TNine
I believe the socialistic qualities that he wants is with health care which is a great idea.

Look how awesome Germany's health care system is. =D

The only thing that is somewhat negative is the 50% taken out of check with taxes. =(

BUT, you can go to any doctor, at any hospital or office, at anytime and just have to pay a $10 copay which is freakin A.

Why can't America do that. >.>
Most of this was nice... minus the 50% percent thing. Is that true? If so then were heading more trouble before the end begins.

I was talking about Germany's Health Care system.

I'm just annoyed that Europe has such a better health care system than us.

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Post by MrX on Thu May 13, 2010 2:33 pm

why so middle class troll?
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Post by Zaki90 on Thu May 13, 2010 6:32 pm

Indecisive One. wrote:My dad is hates Obama. Probably cause hes appointed tsars to positions in which they rank above the pres and that he hasn't lived up to a single campaign promise.

Healthcare...

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Post by TNine on Thu May 13, 2010 6:56 pm

It's been about a year, no? And with Republicans blocking him every step of the way for the sake of blocking him, it is hard to do stuff.
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Post by Rotaretilbo on Thu May 13, 2010 8:47 pm

...er...you do realize that the Democrats practically had a super majority where the Republicans didn't matter, right? He was being blocked by other Democrats and Republicans, because Obama was just trying to force through the first Healthcare bill possible rather than take the time to make one that everyone could agree on.

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Post by Indecisive One. on Fri May 14, 2010 5:46 am

Having majority is a whole lot easier than everyone. Obama just wanted to get "Obamacare" through.
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Post by CivBase on Fri May 14, 2010 6:37 am

TNine wrote:Firstly, it's socialism, not communism. Socialism is a normal and fantastic system in the world. Communism unfortunately fails. Actually, with healthcare, i don't know, but i'm pretty sure it's isocialism.

Secondly, too much capitalism is exactly what got us into this reccession, it's all about balance. Sometimes, more socialism is necessary, sometimes more capitlasim. With modern day healthcare, socialism is the way to go.
You know... Maybe socialism is okay with Britain... But have you SEEN the US government? Do you honestly believe it could successfully handle a socialistic govt?

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Post by Maeve on Fri May 14, 2010 1:08 pm

CivBase wrote:
TNine wrote:Firstly, it's socialism, not communism. Socialism is a normal and fantastic system in the world. Communism unfortunately fails. Actually, with healthcare, i don't know, but i'm pretty sure it's isocialism.

Secondly, too much capitalism is exactly what got us into this reccession, it's all about balance. Sometimes, more socialism is necessary, sometimes more capitlasim. With modern day healthcare, socialism is the way to go.
You know... Maybe socialism is okay with Britain... But have you SEEN the US government? Do you honestly believe it could successfully handle a socialistic govt?

Well, the founding fathers came here in order to be free from the socialistic government of Britain. And we developed our democracy, which allows the people to vote for what they want. If we wanted the government to continue to run everything we own, including our lives, we would have never gone to America for freedom of such tyranny.

The government is slowly gaining control of everything. Obama passed the healthcare bill without the people's approval. Now, I wouldn't be complaining if it's what the people wanted but he passed it without our votes on if we wanted it or not. That's why a lot of people are upset about it, and for the fact that it has a ton of hidden items in it. Example: One little town in Iowa has a lot of people living with cancer. Let's give some money to them only and no one else to help with the cancer problems. That's why I don't like it. It's like with gay marriage. The government passed it without the people's approval. If it's what the people wanted, I wouldn't be so against it.

But, I do think Obama is socialistic, not communistic. Obama himself may not think so nor his followers. (Really it's quiet scary to see these people worship him like their God. Almost reminds me of Hitler at times lol). Back up a bit and take a look at his choices and what he believes in. It's not as great as what America thought it would be, hence why his approval rating has gone down lately.

Anyways, to adress CivBase's point, I don't think America can handle socialism. Even if we do adopt it, there will be a lot of people that will oppose and try to overthrow the government because of the socialism.
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Post by CivBase on Fri May 14, 2010 2:17 pm

Baconsen wrote:I'm just annoyed that Europe has such a better health care system than us.
They don't, they just pay a ton more than the average American. The beauty of the Us is that you can get that same quality health care by choice, or you can save some money and get lower quality. Either way, you have a choice.

Limiting medical prices is important, but socializing healthcare is not the answer.

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Post by Ringleader on Fri May 14, 2010 2:38 pm

Yeah, and the wait times are a lot longer on average. The beauty of competing institutions is that they will compete for your money, and if there is only one service available, who will they compete with? The government has a track record of being sloppy and inefficient with large scale management operations.

DMV anyone? except instead of getting your driver's licence, your waiting in line to get a new liver!
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Post by Rotaretilbo on Fri May 14, 2010 4:48 pm

Maeve wrote:Well, the founding fathers came here in order to be free from the socialistic government of Britain.

Not quite...the original colonists came to the United States to escape religious persecution from the monarchy of Britain.

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Post by TNine on Fri May 14, 2010 5:14 pm

Rotaretilbo wrote:...er...you do realize that the Democrats practically had a super majority where the Republicans didn't matter, right? He was being blocked by other Democrats and Republicans, because Obama was just trying to force through the first Healthcare bill possible rather than take the time to make one that everyone could agree on.
If i remember correctly, the amount of obamacans to anti-obamacrats was about equal.

It was the philibuster that stopped him.
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Post by Maeve on Fri May 14, 2010 5:16 pm

Rotaretilbo wrote:
Maeve wrote:Well, the founding fathers came here in order to be free from the socialistic government of Britain.

Not quite...the original colonists came to the United States to escape religious persecution from the monarchy of Britain.

that's true but didn't they also want their own form of government?
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Post by Rotaretilbo on Fri May 14, 2010 6:12 pm

TNine wrote:If i remember correctly, the amount of obamacans to anti-obamacrats was about equal.

It was the philibuster that stopped him.

It was the fact that half the Democratic Party hated the bill, and they had to make under the table deals just to get their party to agree to the bill, but those deals just pissed off other Democrats.

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Post by TNine on Fri May 14, 2010 8:38 pm

Maeve wrote:
Rotaretilbo wrote:
Maeve wrote:Well, the founding fathers came here in order to be free from the socialistic government of Britain.

Not quite...the original colonists came to the United States to escape religious persecution from the monarchy of Britain.

that's true but didn't they also want their own form of government?
No. They wanted representation in Parliament, which was supposed to be guaranteed by the constitution.
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Post by Maeve on Fri May 14, 2010 11:10 pm

TNine wrote:
Maeve wrote:
Rotaretilbo wrote:
Maeve wrote:Well, the founding fathers came here in order to be free from the socialistic government of Britain.

Not quite...the original colonists came to the United States to escape religious persecution from the monarchy of Britain.

that's true but didn't they also want their own form of government?
No. They wanted representation in Parliament, which was supposed to be guaranteed by the constitution.

Oh...well...oops lol. Maybe I need to pay more attention in history class from now on @_@ lol

other than my historical mistake...my opinion is right there in black and
white =P
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Post by Toaster on Sun May 16, 2010 2:53 pm

I realize that labeling Obama is exactly what this thread is about... but I think we should stop.

Perhaps his policies are reminiscent of certain well known political/economic ideologies, but I've come to the realization that using labels like "communist" and "Socialist" tends to misguide people... and tends to activate some sort of instinctual defense mechanism within the general population.

This labeling is what makes me absolutely hate the American political scene. It's perfectly alright to disapprove of Obama's legislative proposals. When it comes to healthcare, I don't think the recently passed bill is the right way to go.

Personally, I think it is the government's job to protect the individual. I think Teddy Roosevelt had the right idea when it came to regulating the business world. With healthcare, credit card companies, and all sorts of other industries, the government REALLY needs to start cracking down.

The government should be regulating the hell out of healthcare, and creating an enormity of legislation to ensure that consumers are treated fairly and equally by their insurers, and to ensure that consumers are honestly and clearly informed about the plans they're buying into.

Obama's new healthcare bill does a lot to protect the individual, but some of its efforts... although well-intentioned, might have the opposite effect. Forcing employers to either pay for the insurance of their work-force, or pay a costly fine, for example, might inspire many employers to simply fire more expendable employees, leaving them jobless, and still without healthcare.

There are also a few aspects of the new bill which I feel might go a little to far. I do not fear a government take-over of industry, or the restriction of our human rights. I simply don't know that it is the governments job to directly provide the consumer with any service, or even to directly provide the consumer with subsidies / funds necessary to acquire that service.

But... to be honest.... I really don't know how I feel about the concept of welfare in its entirety. I think that, to an extent, it is an unfortunate necessity. Although it disagrees with some of my basic political ideals, I cannot morally justify a political system wherein the less fortunate are simply left behind, or ignored.

Anyway, my point is this. It's perfectly alright to disagree with Obama. It's perfectly alright to oppose his policies. What sickens me is that politicians (and "regular people") who oppose him do not often do so on any basis of reason.

We have people in this country opposing the new healthcare bill on the basis that its policies can be violently twisted and contorted in a manner which makes them sound "communist" or "fascist," and because they associate such ideologies with their historical representations, they imagine Obama as the next Hitler, or Mao Zedong.

Perhaps if the opposition to the new healthcare bill had actually taken the time to make reasoned arguments regarding its flaws, they might have been successful in preventing its passage. Instead, they focused on creating chaos, and avoided, at all costs, any form of reconciliation. So you see rot, while negotiation and extensive revisions would have been fantastic, the opposition simply did not allow it. They acted like stubborn children, and so their cries were ignored.

Strict adherence to any one political ideology or standard, regardless of what it contains, breeds conflict and carnage. People don't seem to understand that.

/RANT
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