I have a question

ReconToaster wrote:

Ziggy wrote:

Yeah, for once I'm with Pie. That's a pretty fucked statement to make. :/
Personally I think gender should equate to nothing in society. It's stances like yours that are fucking up society for women, especially in the business world.

Anyway, enjoy your wife beating in a decade or so when your wife refuses to iron your clothes or make your sandwich bro.

No, I don't mean anything like that. I think women should have all the same rights as men, and they should be allowed to hold the same job positions (except certain military positions) as men. I guess what I'm getting at with Megan Fox is the way that she lets herself be used as some kind of sex image. It bothers me when people just flaunt themselves all over the place, and her image seems to promote some sort of message of promiscuity.

In other words... she strikes me as being a whore.

Now, as for gender roles, I'm not talking about anything radical. I mean simple things. I think certain guidelines make for a much more compatible home life. The man should be the sole financial provider, and the woman should be the sole care giver to the children. I don't think either gender should be forced to observe those guidelines, but I think they make for a longer lasting relationship, wherein both genders are contributing equally but differently.

Now... I don't think women should be in the military. A man goes to war to defend his country, and to defend the women and children back at home. I think that if women truly want equality, and truly want to be able to hold military positions, we should ask them if they would also like to be included in the draft.

Ziggy wrote:I really do hope for the sake of your future partners/wives/girlfriends that this misogyny is playful, even though it's horribly sexist regardless.

I realize that we've been trained to recognize any talk of differences between genders as "sexist," but c'mon now. This isn't misogyny. There is no hatred toward women here. I think it is a man's responsibility to provide for his wife to the best of his abilities, and to cater to all of her wants and needs.

Realizing that, in the very least, society has shaped the roles of men and women, and that those broader roles are very compatible, has nothing to do with a hatred toward women.

I believe that woman should have the same right for anything a man does and the thing about having to include woman is mandatory for almost all busniesses is right as well. It eliminates that the person would never hire them, like Affirmative Action.

At the military one, I also believe they should have some roles through volunteering, but to incoporate them into the draft is the wrong thing to do. We would have a significant amount of less woman back home to help. As for now, atleast, the draft hasn't been broght back at all.

Ruski wrote:I believe that woman should have the same right for anything a man does and the thing about having to include woman is mandatory for almost all busniesses is right as well. It eliminates that the person would never hire them, like Affirmative Action.

Affirmative Action just breeds loathing in the work place for minorities. When a business is forced to hire someone, it means there was someone else more qualified to do the job. Thus, the person being hired is not necessarily competent at their job. All of the other employees dislike this person, because they are not fully competent, and loath the system for the incompetence it causes.

In reality, racism exists, but not to the extent that some seem to think. Businesses, for the most part, hire people who are best suited for a job. Affirmative Action forces people to hire based on skin color, rather than their skills, and so is perpetuating racism, as it is saying, "Skin color matters!"

Ruski wrote:At the military one, I also believe they should have some roles through volunteering, but to incoporate them into the draft is the wrong thing to do. We would have a significant amount of less woman back home to help. As for now, atleast, the draft hasn't been broght back at all.

But if women were drafted, there would be men back at home to fill their place, would there not? Incorporating women into the draft would be the ultimate act of complete equality. While we're at it, we can get rid of gender discriminating bathrooms.

Rotaretilbo wrote:While we're at it, we can get rid of gender discriminating bathrooms.

That has to do with privacy and sexuality, not differences. A man can't see a woman changing or vice versa by the rules of our society. Seperate but equal (but in this case, actually equal, not the discrimination against blacks).

Neither side would benefit from sharing bathrooms.

TNine wrote:

Rotaretilbo wrote:While we're at it, we can get rid of gender discriminating bathrooms.

That has to do with privacy and sexuality, not differences. A man can't see a woman changing or vice versa by the rules of our society. Seperate but equal (but in this case, actually equal, not the discrimination against blacks).

Neither side would benefit from sharing bathrooms.

hmmm, depends how you define "benefit" ;)

TNine wrote:

Rotaretilbo wrote:While we're at it, we can get rid of gender discriminating bathrooms.

That has to do with privacy and sexuality, not differences. A man can't see a woman changing or vice versa by the rules of our society. Seperate but equal (but in this case, actually equal, not the discrimination against blacks).

Neither side would benefit from sharing bathrooms.

Separate but equal. Men and women should have separate but equal household roles. Men and women should have separate but equal roles in society as a whole. Women don't get to have urinals in their bathrooms because they are not suited to their... anatomy.

ReconToaster wrote:

TNine wrote:

Rotaretilbo wrote:While we're at it, we can get rid of gender discriminating bathrooms.

That has to do with privacy and sexuality, not differences. A man can't see a woman changing or vice versa by the rules of our society. Seperate but equal (but in this case, actually equal, not the discrimination against blacks).

Neither side would benefit from sharing bathrooms.

Separate but equal. Men and women should have separate but equal household roles. Men and women should have separate but equal roles in society as a whole. Women don't get to have urinals in their bathrooms because they are not suited to their... anatomy.

Oh yeah

separate but equal, it worked magically before!

Gauz wrote:

separate but equal, it worked magically before!

Except I'm not promoting when we had before.

Gauz wrote:

ReconToaster wrote:

TNine wrote:

Rotaretilbo wrote:While we're at it, we can get rid of gender discriminating bathrooms.

That has to do with privacy and sexuality, not differences. A man can't see a woman changing or vice versa by the rules of our society. Seperate but equal (but in this case, actually equal, not the discrimination against blacks).

Neither side would benefit from sharing bathrooms.

Separate but equal. Men and women should have separate but equal household roles. Men and women should have separate but equal roles in society as a whole. Women don't get to have urinals in their bathrooms because they are not suited to their... anatomy.

Oh yeah

separate but equal, it worked magically before!

It wasn't separate but equal, it was separate and unequal. That's the difference between what we are talking about now and what segregation was.

Death no more wrote:

Gauz wrote:

ReconToaster wrote:

TNine wrote:

Rotaretilbo wrote:While we're at it, we can get rid of gender discriminating bathrooms.

That has to do with privacy and sexuality, not differences. A man can't see a woman changing or vice versa by the rules of our society. Seperate but equal (but in this case, actually equal, not the discrimination against blacks).

Neither side would benefit from sharing bathrooms.

Separate but equal. Men and women should have separate but equal household roles. Men and women should have separate but equal roles in society as a whole. Women don't get to have urinals in their bathrooms because they are not suited to their... anatomy.

Oh yeah

separate but equal, it worked magically before!

It wasn't separate but equal, it was separate and unequal. That's the difference between what we are talking about now and what segregation was.

Learn you some history boy.

When America was segregated the term was "separate but equal", but it wasn't.

Gauz wrote:

Death no more wrote:

Gauz wrote:

ReconToaster wrote:

TNine wrote:

Rotaretilbo wrote:While we're at it, we can get rid of gender discriminating bathrooms.

That has to do with privacy and sexuality, not differences. A man can't see a woman changing or vice versa by the rules of our society. Seperate but equal (but in this case, actually equal, not the discrimination against blacks).

Neither side would benefit from sharing bathrooms.

Separate but equal. Men and women should have separate but equal household roles. Men and women should have separate but equal roles in society as a whole. Women don't get to have urinals in their bathrooms because they are not suited to their... anatomy.

Oh yeah

separate but equal, it worked magically before!

It wasn't separate but equal, it was separate and unequal. That's the difference between what we are talking about now and what segregation was.

Learn you some history boy.

When America was segregated the term was "separate but equal", but it wasn't.

Ya I know the term, but it wasn't that way. So you cant really say that separate but equal didn't work because in segregation it was separate and unequal. That term was used to defend the Jim Crow laws and segregation.

Um... how did asking why guys stare at Megan Fox turn into an argument about woman's rights?

anyway, we're also (aside from the military) not talking about any sort of limitations of rights, or any kind of gender-related legislation.

we're talking about the roles that genders SHOULD fill. voluntarily.

Mr. Grenade wrote:Um... how did asking why guys stare at Megan Fox turn into an argument about woman's rights?

I'll proudly take credit for that...

ReconToaster wrote:anyway, we're also (aside from the military) not talking about any sort of limitations of rights, or any kind of gender-related legislation.

we're talking about the roles that genders SHOULD fill. voluntarily.

Mr. Grenade wrote:Um... how did asking why guys stare at Megan Fox turn into an argument about woman's rights?

I'll proudly take credit for that...

Okay just wondering

Basically, Toaster wants all women to build pyramids (with gibm gold sammichs on top) and be as non-threatening about it as possible.

Seperate is inherently unequal. Men probably have it better in the bathrooms, cause they only have to deal with dirty toilets if they take a shit, but women get extra stalls, etc. The benefits given to both make them not want gender-neutral bathrooms, and it is not within their rights to invade privacy and demand gender-neutral bathrooms.

We already have willing segregation, mothers stay at home while fathers work. However, if one person doesn't want this role, they should have the right to have it without being judged.

It's such a multi-faceted debate that it's pretty ridiculous. If equality is demanded, equality should be served within our abilities. Noone is demanding gender-neutral bathrooms and it is not within our ability to change anatomy.

Actually, there are people demanding gender neutral bathrooms. I brought it up because I thought it was here, but it must have been some other place where I had a debate with someone who thought that gender segregated bathrooms were inherently evil.

I would also note that we segregate in other facets of our lifem, as well. If you are driving south, you will drive on the west side of the road. If you are driving north, you will drive on the east side of the road. If you are driving east, you will drive on the south side of the road. If you are driving west, you will drive on the north side of the road. That, my friends, is seperate but equal, and it has worked quite well for quite a long time.

...

I sure as hell ain't letting no women carry things when i have free hands.

that's all i really think about with "sexual equality"

double post

I think gender neutral bathrooms are fine.


I don't really see a problem with it...

Gender neutral bathrooms present the problem of urinals. With them, ladies can take a gander. Without them, men have to pee in stalls, which means that toilet seats will invariably be more dirty than normal.

Errr... no they can't?
That's not a problem. I'm pretty sure gay guys that go to the bathroom don't go around staring at guys taking pisses rot.

I'm pretty sure girls can also be modest.

Rotaretilbo wrote:Actually, there are people demanding gender neutral bathrooms. I brought it up because I thought it was here, but it must have been some other place where I had a debate with someone who thought that gender segregated bathrooms were inherently evil.

I would also note that we segregate in other facets of our lifem, as well. If you are driving south, you will drive on the west side of the road. If you are driving north, you will drive on the east side of the road. If you are driving east, you will drive on the south side of the road. If you are driving west, you will drive on the north side of the road. That, my friends, is seperate but equal, and it has worked quite well for quite a long time.

That's a totally different usage of the word segregation. It's technically segregation, but it isn't at all the focus of the conversation.

Ziggy wrote:I really do hope for the sake of your future partners/wives/girlfriends that this misogyny is playful, even though it's horribly sexist regardless.

Who's 'misogyny?'









...Monsieur Fifi

Baconsen wrote:...

I sure as hell ain't letting no women carry things when i have free hands.

that's all i really think about with "sexual equality"

Yeah, I'm really not going much further than that. I think that we as a culture have certain gender related principles, and those should be promoted and voluntarily accepted.

A woman should be able to get a job. She should be able to do everything that a man is allowed to do. However, just as a man should be the sole financial provider of a house hold, a woman should be the sole caregiver of children.

The irony here is that almost every American already accepts these concepts, and yet they are repulsed when they are fed back to them. When a man takes a woman out on a date, who pays? The man. If a man has, as you say, a free hand, he should take the initiative to carry heavy objects. If a man and a woman come upon a door, the man should hold the damn thing open for her. If two men get into a fight, it is acceptable for one man to punch the other in the face. If a man and a woman get into a fight... and the man punches the woman in the face... he is a worthless piece of shit.

Simple stuff like that just goes to show how much we as a society appreciate and live by gender-related principles. That's why we so easily accept the idea of drafting young men into the military, while we find the idea of doing the same to young women to be absolutely horrendous.

Little girls are given baby dolls and playhouses to entertain themselves with. Little boys are given toy guns and footballs. We are trained from birth to fill certain roles, and I don't think we should just give up on all that social training.

rot wrote:Actually, there are people demanding gender neutral bathrooms. I brought it up because I thought it was here, but it must have been some other place where I had a debate with someone who thought that gender segregated bathrooms were inherently evil.

I suppose it could promote like... shameful thinking toward your particular genders' genitalia? Like... it is something you should keep hidden from the opposite sex, and something that you should be embarrassed of? In that case, we should eliminate stalls and urinal dividers as well.

All restrooms should be fitted with those God-awful troughs full of ice, with mirrors in-front of them.

so basically, you're saying that everything should be like it is, but without the rising pressure on people to do non-traditional gender roles?


that sounds reasonable as long as it doesn't cross over into strongly encouraging or forcing people around