Politics

Because we just need a thread for it. I think this is a good place to start:

Angatar wrote:

ReconToaster wrote:

Dud Doodoo wrote:

Seriously, I think Obama is the end of this nation, I'm not whining.

SO instead of actually putting together a prepared response you are going to come in here and make a dumb statement like that and leave? How about you elaborate on WHY you think such a thing. I myself am under the comprehension that the previous administration already did all the damage. It can't get much worse.

I don't know if you remember, but George W. Bush ran on a campaign of no nation building. Apparently something changed. 9/11 is their excuse for inverting all of their policies. That doesn't cut it in my opinion.

the previous administration furthered the world's hatred towards the US by involving us in yet another stupid war, destroyed our economy, and dismantled the constitution. Tell me, how is Obama "the end of this nation"?

Why do you blame the president for all the problems?

The War is Congresses fault, they accepted it.
Our economy is in bad shape, but there are ways to make it much better.
Dismantling our Constitution? Not the presidents fault. If I'm not mistaken, the Supreme Court handles what is legal, and follows the constitution.

Mkay.
Since we're on the subject of politics, I'd like to propose the use of a 10 year constitutional dictatorship to get our country back on track.

lol, just noticed that when I click on the thread

Rasq'uire'laskar wrote:Mkay.
Since we're on the subject of politics, I'd like to propose the use of a 10 year constitutional dictatorship to get our country back on track.

I don't know. Temporary constitutional dictatorships have a way of lasting longer than the problem.

CivBase wrote:lol, just noticed that when I click on the thread

Hmmm?

The War is Congresses fault, they accepted it.

ummm.... we never declared war on Iraq. The Iraq war is unconstitutional. UN approval DOES NOT CUT IT.

ReconToaster wrote:

The War is Congresses fault, they accepted it.

ummm.... we never declared war on Iraq. The Iraq war is unconstitutional. UN approval DOES NOT CUT IT.

Yah, but the war wouldn't have been near as bad had congress supported it.
They knew we were going in there, but instead of helping us they decided to cut funding and make the war living hell just so they could make Bush look bad.
You do NOT toy with peoples lives like that for personal gain.

umm...on a Obama note heres sumtin cool.
He refuses to give up his birth certificate, meaning he isnt allowed to be prez until he does.
And if he doesnt, he gets booted.
^^
EDIT!!!!
But if the mostly Democratic Congress tries to skip around this then thats called a coup and so.....
interesting huh?

YAY!
I wonder if we could convince biden to pick McCain as his vice....
Or does the election go to the second runner up then sence he never even made it into office?

Don Corleone wrote:umm...on a Obama note heres sumtin cool.
He refuses to give up his birth certificate, meaning he isnt allowed to be prez until he does.
And if he doesnt, he gets booted.
^^
EDIT!!!!
But if the mostly Democratic Congress tries to skip around this then thats called a coup and so.....
interesting huh?

way to promote a rumor Don!

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/.shared/image.html?/photos/uncategorized/2008/06/13/bobirthcertificate.jpg there you go. From a reliable source. The LA times.

but how do you know it wasnt forged?

Don Corleone wrote:but how do you know it wasnt forged?

how do you know that any of the presidents' birth certificates were not forged?

Stop trying to create an issue that does not exist.

lol

its just what i heard.
And i thought it was interesting

btw don, I love you sig!


I just happen to have one of my own...

Tbone made it fer me

don's sig is win

ReconToaster wrote: ummm.... we never declared war on Iraq. The Iraq war is unconstitutional. UN approval DOES NOT CUT IT.

Erm, actually, we did. Bush has the executive power to declare war without Congress's express permission, but must then get their permission or pull out. Per Wikipedia, the Senate voted 77 to 23 in favor and the House 269 to 133 in favor (that is to say, Operation: Iraqi Freedom got more Congressional support initially than Operation: Desert Storm). Most people call the war unconstitutional because we bypassed the UN, but then, it is also unconstitutional for two Security Council members and several other members of the UN to be abusing the Oil for Food Program to get cheaper oil, later known as the Oil for Food Scandal, so it is hardly a surprise that France, Germany, and Russia refused to agree to any sort of war on Iraq when they were making bundles under the table.

CivBase wrote:Yah, but the war wouldn't have been near as bad had congress supported it.
They knew we were going in there, but instead of helping us they decided to cut funding and make the war living hell just so they could make Bush look bad.
You do NOT toy with peoples lives like that for personal gain.

Which is another point Democrats blame Bush for. They say he didn't provide proper body armor and vehicle armoring, yet it was Congress who was withholding funding. What's even funnier is that another of the "mistakes" listed on that post Pie made was that Bush bypassed Congress to send funding directly to the troops. They blame him for not getting the troops enough funding, then get upset when he bypasses the funding problem: Congress.

Don Corleone wrote:umm...on a Obama note heres sumtin cool.
He refuses to give up his birth certificate, meaning he isnt allowed to be prez until he does.
And if he doesnt, he gets booted.
^^
EDIT!!!!
But if the mostly Democratic Congress tries to skip around this then thats called a coup and so.....
interesting huh?

What surprises me most about the whole issue is that they demanded McCain's birth certificate. McCain's father was an admiral in the US Navy at the time of his birth in the US sector of the Panama Canal. It would be pretty hard to fake having an admiral for a father (which, since admirals tend to be US citizens themselves, would grant McCain automatic natural US citizenship whether he was born in the United States, Panama, Russia, or Iraq). Now, I've seen images of a claimed birth certificate, but I've never seen them on Obama's site, and it is too easy to photoshop something on the Internet.

CivBase wrote:YAY!
I wonder if we could convince biden to pick McCain as his vice....
Or does the election go to the second runner up then sence he never even made it into office?

I actually don't know what would happen in the event that Obama's election was nullified due to his lack of natural citizenship.

ReconToaster wrote: way to promote a rumor Don!

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/.shared/image.html?/photos/uncategorized/2008/06/13/bobirthcertificate.jpg there you go. From a reliable source. The LA times.

I hardly find a shared image on the blogs section of the LA Times to be compelling.

Don Corleone wrote:but how do you know it wasnt forged?

My main worry isn't an actual document being forged, but a document being photoshopped in order to alleviate the public commotion caused by the lack of a birth certificate.

ReconToaster wrote: how do you know that any of the presidents' birth certificates were not forged?

Stop trying to create an issue that does not exist.

Well, for one, most other Presidents present their birth certificates in person rather than over the Internet, so I'd assume that birth certificates have some sort of water mark that is extremely difficult to copy marking the date, or at least the year.

Don Corleone wrote:lol

its just what i heard.
And i thought it was interesting

I've heard it too, for quite some time now. Recently, I've seen an image thrown around, even on Wikipedia, but any links to Obama's website that the site claims to have gotten the image from are broken.

ReconToaster wrote:btw don, I love you sig!


I just happen to have one of my own...

Hehe...Pokemon...*giggles*

Don Corleone wrote:Tbone made it fer me

And so drifts the topic...

Evil Jasha wrote:don's sig is win

It was one thing for two active members of the debate to drift off topic, but you haven't contributed, so could you please keep your off topic comments at the bottom of contributive posts or something. ;)

Rotaretilbo wrote:but you haven't contributed, so could you please keep your off topic comments at the bottom of contributive posts or something. ;)

I'm incapable of contributive thought.

so

*leaves thread*

ReconToaster wrote:

Don Corleone wrote:but how do you know it wasnt forged?

how do you know that any of the presidents' birth certificates were not forged?

Stop trying to create an issue that does not exist.

Recon, how many presidential birth cirtificates were found in the internet?
He's concerned that the one you found might be a forged one that anyone could have posted on the internet, not that the one Obama will (most likely) eventualy use to become president.

Recon, how many presidential birth cirtificates were found in the internet?

A: it was the LA times

B: what would you rather him do? Go door to door, personally showing people his Birth Certificate?

well think about it.
How hard would it really be to make one, call it real, and make LA believe it when he has so much....support would be the best word.

ReconToaster wrote:

The War is Congresses fault, they accepted it.

ummm.... we never declared war on Iraq. The Iraq war is unconstitutional. UN approval DOES NOT CUT IT.

UN didn't approve....

CivBase wrote:
Yah, but the war wouldn't have been near as bad had congress supported it.
They knew we were going in there, but instead of helping us they decided to cut funding and make the war living hell just so they could make Bush look bad.
You do NOT toy with peoples lives like that for personal gain.

Um, they didn't cut funding. The Marines just have never had that great of funding in the first place (most soldiers have to use their own money for replacement equipment) but that's just how the military works.

ReconToaster wrote:

Recon, how many presidential birth cirtificates were found in the internet?

A: it was the LA times

Still on the internet. And news sorces (especialy those in highly populated areas) have not exactly been known to always have %100 correct sources.

ReconToaster wrote:B: what would you rather him do? Go door to door, personally showing people his Birth Certificate?

No, but maybe getting a reliable source (maybe congress?) to kill the rumor would be nice.

Rotaretilbo wrote:

Erm, actually, we did. Bush has the executive power to declare war without Congress's express permission, but must then get their permission or pull out.

Actually, there is the War Power Clause or such, that allows Congress to recall all troops at the 30 day mark, but it has never actually been used. Congress never actually voted on the War. They did in fact vote on the President being allowed to use force against Saddam, and technically kinda allowed him to declare war without their support, though they could still have pulled the troops back.

Rotaretilbo wrote:

Rasq'uire'laskar wrote:Mkay.
Since we're on the subject of politics, I'd like to propose the use of a 10 year constitutional dictatorship to get our country back on track.

I don't know. Temporary constitutional dictatorships have a way of lasting longer than the problem.

Lol.

Actually, I think I could make it work. I just need some good sociologists, like BF Skinner.

rasq's pic: