Next Next Gen
+9
Rotaretilbo
Lord Pheonix
Rasq'uire'laskar
PiEdude
Nocbl2
KrAzY
Gauz
Elabajaba
CivBase
13 posters
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Re: Next Next Gen
Rotaretilbo wrote: I can't think of any genres in which keyboard/mouse and controller are on an even playing field.
Any turn-based sort of game? I think they'd be pretty evenly matched.
Gauz- Crimson Medic
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Re: Next Next Gen
Turn based games would be evenly matched between gamepad, keyboard/mouse, and just playing with a physical board and your hands. That's the nature of removing the time element: it is pure strategy.
Re: Next Next Gen
@ Vigil
Again, look at Xi3's website (the folks that make the Steam Box). It's not a streaming box, it's an actual computer.
The only big issue I see is that it probably won't be up to par with prices. Power would be too much to balance, and that sort of material used in the machine is expensive.
Again, look at Xi3's website (the folks that make the Steam Box). It's not a streaming box, it's an actual computer.
The only big issue I see is that it probably won't be up to par with prices. Power would be too much to balance, and that sort of material used in the machine is expensive.
Nocbl2- Lord's Personal Minion
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Re: Next Next Gen
Rotaretilbo wrote:Turn based games would be evenly matched between gamepad, keyboard/mouse, and just playing with a physical board and your hands. That's the nature of removing the time element: it is purestrategyLuck.
Fixed, Were talking Xcom here not chess
dragoon9105- Lord's Personal Minion
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Elabajaba- Crimson Epileptic
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Re: Next Next Gen
Would it be unreasonable for M$ and Sony to come up with keyboard options that are comfortable and practical in a living room setting?
Keyboard-style game pads already have a strong foothold in the gaming market and all mice really need area flat, stable surface - which seems like a dilemma which could easily be accounted for by either company.
I mean, we're talking about the next generation of hardware. I don't want them to try and re-invent the wheel every gen like Nintendo, but when we run into the "controllers aren't as accurate as mouse-and-keyboard" problems, don't you think someone should be trying to bridge that gap instead of accepting it as uncrossable?
Keyboard-style game pads already have a strong foothold in the gaming market and all mice really need area flat, stable surface - which seems like a dilemma which could easily be accounted for by either company.
I mean, we're talking about the next generation of hardware. I don't want them to try and re-invent the wheel every gen like Nintendo, but when we run into the "controllers aren't as accurate as mouse-and-keyboard" problems, don't you think someone should be trying to bridge that gap instead of accepting it as uncrossable?
Re: Next Next Gen
The thing is most console gamers don't WANT mouse and keyboard, they want controllers.
Chances are it would be a huge sink to put money into keyboard and mouse gaming.
Anyone who would choose to pay money to buy a keyboard and mouse combo to play with an RTS game that they would also buy would probably already just be a PC gamer and just play it on their PC.
Chances are it would be a huge sink to put money into keyboard and mouse gaming.
Anyone who would choose to pay money to buy a keyboard and mouse combo to play with an RTS game that they would also buy would probably already just be a PC gamer and just play it on their PC.
Re: Next Next Gen
CivBase wrote:Would it be unreasonable for M$ and Sony to come up with keyboard options that are comfortable and practical in a living room setting?
Keyboard-style game pads already have a strong foothold in the gaming market and all mice really need area flat, stable surface - which seems like a dilemma which could easily be accounted for by either company.
I mean, we're talking about the next generation of hardware. I don't want them to try and re-invent the wheel every gen like Nintendo, but when we run into the "controllers aren't as accurate as mouse-and-keyboard" problems, don't you think someone should be trying to bridge that gap instead of accepting it as uncrossable?
They did, it was called the Chatpad.
Vigil- Dark Knight of the Flames
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Re: Next Next Gen
I don't think that ever actually served keyboard functionality except when messaging.
Nocbl2- Lord's Personal Minion
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Re: Next Next Gen
Nocbl2 wrote:I don't think that ever actually served keyboard functionality except when messaging.
The 360 had the chatpad which I believe was only used for messaging but they did have a 360 useable keyboard that was supported in some games.
Vigil- Dark Knight of the Flames
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Re: Next Next Gen
You could type your pinatas names in Viva Pinata!Vigil wrote:Nocbl2 wrote:I don't think that ever actually served keyboard functionality except when messaging.
The 360 had the chatpad which I believe was only used for messaging but they did have a 360 useable keyboard that was supported in some games.
=D
A_Bearded_Swede- Crimson Chef
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Re: Next Next Gen
Yes.CivBase wrote:So.... we're sticking with controllers because it's what we've used up till now?
I mean, come on. Console players aren't going to give up the ghost and finally embrace the superior mouse/keyboard setup. And don't get me started on the joke that motion controls are.
Rasq'uire'laskar- Crimson Scribe
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Re: Next Next Gen
We're at a point where motion technology and touch screens are somehow taking control of console peripherals. I have trouble accepting that keyboard and mouse could be shun in light of everything that's happened in the last couple years.Rasq'uire'laskar wrote:I mean, come on. Console players aren't going to give up the ghost and finally embrace the superior mouse/keyboard setup. And don't get me started on the joke that motion controls are.
Re: Next Next Gen
Have you guys ever tried to use a mouse without using a table?
"Superior setup" my ass.
"Superior setup" my ass.
TNine- Minion
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Re: Next Next Gen
Again, it shouldn't be difficult for M$ or Sony to build mouse-and-keyboard peripherals that work well in a livingroom setting.
Re: Next Next Gen
As a normal console is set up it is usually a tv on one end of a room and a couch a good amount of distance from the tv.
The console gamer is sitting in a couch or a chair all this distance away from the tv(average PC gamer is at most 1 1/2 - 2 ft from their monitor while a Console gamer can be anywhere from 5-15 feet away from their TV) and probably leaning back in it away from any tables.
To get these gamers to play a mouse and keyboard they would also need a table or stand that fits the height of their sitting position and lets them sit in a COUCH comfortably while sitting up straight to reach the keyboard and mouse.
A chair and a desk is the only way to really comfortably play a keyboard and mouse competitively.
If you think you can then try getting a laptop with a wireless mouse and play on a couch for a few hours online in some game. Shit doesn't work. And that's with the monitor in front of you and not across the room.
And the traditional console gamer just doesn't WANT to play with a keyboard and mouse. If they wanted to play with a keyboard and mouse they'd go on the computer and play games.
The console gamer is sitting in a couch or a chair all this distance away from the tv(average PC gamer is at most 1 1/2 - 2 ft from their monitor while a Console gamer can be anywhere from 5-15 feet away from their TV) and probably leaning back in it away from any tables.
To get these gamers to play a mouse and keyboard they would also need a table or stand that fits the height of their sitting position and lets them sit in a COUCH comfortably while sitting up straight to reach the keyboard and mouse.
A chair and a desk is the only way to really comfortably play a keyboard and mouse competitively.
If you think you can then try getting a laptop with a wireless mouse and play on a couch for a few hours online in some game. Shit doesn't work. And that's with the monitor in front of you and not across the room.
And the traditional console gamer just doesn't WANT to play with a keyboard and mouse. If they wanted to play with a keyboard and mouse they'd go on the computer and play games.
Re: Next Next Gen
These arguments don't make the slightest bit of sense to me, but I'm really sick of the debate so this will be my last post on the subject.
Final Thoughts:
With a little effort and ingenuity, there's no reason a keyboard and mouse setup couldn't be designed as an acceptable replacement for a controller in a livingroom environment.
Regardless, I do all my PC gaming either sitting on my bed at home or on my futon in college. There is never a table or desk involved, yet I can operate just fine.
If people want controllers instead, it would still be an option - just like it is for PC games. We already have additional peripherals that allow greater control than the standard controller anyway; keyboard and mouse could just be one more.
Final Thoughts:
With a little effort and ingenuity, there's no reason a keyboard and mouse setup couldn't be designed as an acceptable replacement for a controller in a livingroom environment.
Regardless, I do all my PC gaming either sitting on my bed at home or on my futon in college. There is never a table or desk involved, yet I can operate just fine.
If people want controllers instead, it would still be an option - just like it is for PC games. We already have additional peripherals that allow greater control than the standard controller anyway; keyboard and mouse could just be one more.
Re: Next Next Gen
^ and that's all, folks.
Controllers are just... easier. They're smaller and it's often more comfortable to have one because you're in a more relaxed position. However, my brother did have his wireless keyboard/mouse linked to the PC linked to the TV, which actually worked well in our recliner. The mouse was on the arm and the board on his lap. But it's more expensive to go wireless and it would glitch out more.
Controllers are just... easier. They're smaller and it's often more comfortable to have one because you're in a more relaxed position. However, my brother did have his wireless keyboard/mouse linked to the PC linked to the TV, which actually worked well in our recliner. The mouse was on the arm and the board on his lap. But it's more expensive to go wireless and it would glitch out more.
Nocbl2- Lord's Personal Minion
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Re: Next Next Gen
CivBase wrote:These arguments don't make the slightest bit of sense to me, but I'm really sick of the debate so this will be my last post on the subject.
Final Thoughts:
With a little effort and ingenuity, there's no reason a keyboard and mouse setup couldn't be designed as an acceptable replacement for a controller in a livingroom environment.
No, you don't get to pretend like you don't understand our arguments, yet offer absolutely no plausible solution. You can't just keep saying "I'm sure they could." You need to go further. How? How are you going to design a keyboard, which requires complete stability, that fits perfectly into a player's lap without teetering at all, and a mouse, which requires both stability and a perfectly flat surface, that fits...somewhere else, I guess?
CivBase wrote:Regardless, I do all my PC gaming either sitting on my bed at home or on my futon in college. There is never a table or desk involved, yet I can operate just fine.
And what games are you playing in this manner? Where do you put your mouse?
Re: Next Next Gen
I use a mouse and keyboard (mainly because i can't stand laptop built in mousepads or keyboards) while sitting in my living room, No desk required, You just need to be creative.
Keyboard you simply put across your knee's or prop it up on a coffee table, For a mouse its really easy to get used to having the mouse next to you instead of in front of you. Granted you wont be playing anything competitive with a setup like that but it can work.
Foldable tables(The proper name eludes me) work wonders as well and are the right height to put a keyboard and mouse on (As normally you'd be eating off them), I have a nice wooden set of four that was something like 50 bucks.
So Yes, it is Viable, Not really a good idea, but its hardly as horrible as everyone is making it out to be.
Keyboard you simply put across your knee's or prop it up on a coffee table, For a mouse its really easy to get used to having the mouse next to you instead of in front of you. Granted you wont be playing anything competitive with a setup like that but it can work.
Foldable tables(The proper name eludes me) work wonders as well and are the right height to put a keyboard and mouse on (As normally you'd be eating off them), I have a nice wooden set of four that was something like 50 bucks.
So Yes, it is Viable, Not really a good idea, but its hardly as horrible as everyone is making it out to be.
dragoon9105- Lord's Personal Minion
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Re: Next Next Gen
*sigh* remember when I said last post? I lied.
Again, they've been developing much more complicated systems like motion control or peripheral surface projection -this would be a much easier task. I don't need to write up blueprints to prove it's true. Just look at some of the optional peripherals recently developed for PC gamers. Gamepads, for instance, fill the roll of a keyboard for most games. A mouse would be trickier, but a special, rigid mousepad could fix that. Laser-tracking also makes mice a lot more versatile.
Like I've said, I play on a futon with no special props other than a simple mousepad. It wouldn't hurt to use a pillow to prop it up, but it's still a huge improvement in aiming compared to analog sticks. I like controllers and all, and I can still play them comfortably (even choose to on some games), but if they are the only major hindrance to cross-platform support, I'll gladly vote to drop them for mouse-and-keyboard.
I understand your arguments, I just don't think they have much merit. I'm not dedicated enough to draw up a design for how to do it, but it's not a particularly challenging task for billion-dollar companies who exit (or have departments which exist) solely to develop and compete in the gaming industry.Rotaretilbo wrote:No, you don't get to pretend like you don't understand our arguments, yet offer absolutely no plausible solution. You can't just keep saying "I'm sure they could." You need to go further. How? How are you going to design a keyboard, which requires complete stability, that fits perfectly into a player's lap without teetering at all, and a mouse, which requires both stability and a perfectly flat surface, that fits...somewhere else, I guess?
Again, they've been developing much more complicated systems like motion control or peripheral surface projection -this would be a much easier task. I don't need to write up blueprints to prove it's true. Just look at some of the optional peripherals recently developed for PC gamers. Gamepads, for instance, fill the roll of a keyboard for most games. A mouse would be trickier, but a special, rigid mousepad could fix that. Laser-tracking also makes mice a lot more versatile.
Like I've said, I play on a futon with no special props other than a simple mousepad. It wouldn't hurt to use a pillow to prop it up, but it's still a huge improvement in aiming compared to analog sticks. I like controllers and all, and I can still play them comfortably (even choose to on some games), but if they are the only major hindrance to cross-platform support, I'll gladly vote to drop them for mouse-and-keyboard.
KrAzY- Painter of the Flames
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Re: Next Next Gen
Man I loved ''All Good Things''.
Speaking of TNG, when's the next enhanced Blue-ray season out?
Speaking of TNG, when's the next enhanced Blue-ray season out?
Vigil- Dark Knight of the Flames
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