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Post by KristallNacht on Fri Nov 21, 2008 9:08 am

Rotaretilbo wrote:
You realize that Earth has had four ice ages, none of which occurred when such a thing as pollution existed. In light of that, to claim that the planet's temperature changing is completely human's fault is absurd, at best. Furthermore, for Al Gore to ride around in his private jet and tell people to get off the grid and go green, while he lives in something like five houses, all of which are on the grid, and then for him to get a Nobel Prize for this, is simply insulting to science.

Then again, those ice ages were in a time when valcanoes and the like were rampant, generating similiar polution.

But, yes, mankind isn't THE problem, just A problem. But either way, there are ways we have of reversing the effects, of which some hippies say will fuck life up when nothing even sudgests that that even COULD happen.

I actually had this discussion with Leafy, and sudgested we should just speed it up so at least the planet can start again without the human race as an infection.

Rotaretilbo wrote:The guy who invented the Internet and Global Warming, flew around on a private jet and drives in a motorcade of Escalades (the engines are left running while he's inside) to tell us about this Global Warming thing, all the while living in five different houses (all on the grid), and somehow got a Nobel Prize for all this? That guy?

Lol cept he didn't make the internet.
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Post by Rasq'uire'laskar on Fri Nov 21, 2008 12:29 pm

Rotaretilbo wrote:
ReconToaster wrote: This world needs reform. We need to stop focusing our attentions on false distraction and start worrying about the real issues in this world, and we need to stop excusing people for blindly following archaic stories.

I'd rather see people stop blindly following a hollow charismatic shell because the media says so, but whatever you say.

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Rotaretilbo wrote:
CivBase wrote:Healthcare? Insurance is more important than the murder of children? They are issues. Maybe you don't think they're as important, but they're issues. Personaly, I don't think pollution is a big isssue right now. So what if the planet will burn in 500 years? What are you doing about it?
Poverty is probably at the bottom of my list. Why? Because we live in the US. If you want to get rich, you darn well can. If you don't try, you just go down. That's how it works. Some may have to try harder than others, but anyone can do it. As for other countries, that's not our problem until these people are abused by their government. Do you think Spain gives a crap about our healthcare? No, because it's not their business.

Exactly.

CivBase wrote:And this is why I don't have a solid standing on this debate.

I don't either. I'm not sure how I feel about gay legal unions, but the concept that gays could put churches out of business or cow them into granting membership due to a legal loophole is troublesome.

Oh my gawd! Separation of Church and State PLOX!
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Post by MrX on Fri Nov 21, 2008 12:34 pm

dont post racist shit here
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Post by Toaster on Fri Nov 21, 2008 2:01 pm

Hey Rot, in the future, could you please avoid coming into my threads and spamming them with your intentionally long, content-less posts? If you want to multi-quote, go ahead, but saying "indeed" in response to someone's post doesn't really contribute.

I did not say human life is worthless. I said this: "A human fetus is no more important than that of a sheep."

In other words, human life is not inherently important. Human life is made special by the way in which it loves and contributes to the world. A human fetus does not love or contribute to the world. Nor does a sheep fetus.

In other words, the fact that something has the word "HUMAN" stamped on it does not give it humanity.

BTW: actually, a casualty is pretty much anything that causes a soldier to not be able to fight, be it a wound or death. Don't make me bring dictionary.com into this.
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Post by CivBase on Fri Nov 21, 2008 3:19 pm

ReconToaster wrote:Hey Rot, in the future, could you please avoid coming into my threads and spamming them with your intentionally long, content-less posts? If you want to multi-quote, go ahead, but saying "indeed" in response to someone's post doesn't really contribute.

I did not say human life is worthless. I said this: "A human fetus is no more important than that of a sheep."
Actualy... you said pig, not sheep. And it'd be lamb, not sheep.
ReconToaster wrote: In other words, human life is not inherently important. Human life is made special by the way in which it loves and contributes to the world. A human fetus does not love or contribute to the world. Nor does a sheep fetus.
Ah, but there is still a difference. A human fetus will love and contribute to the world. However, the same can't be said for the sheep fetus.
ReconToaster wrote: In other words, the fact that something has the word "HUMAN" stamped on it does not give it humanity.
Sure it does.

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Post by BBJynne on Fri Nov 21, 2008 4:51 pm

Real issues: like whether to eat cake or pie.

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Post by capn qwerty on Fri Nov 21, 2008 4:54 pm

No, those are real gammer issues. This is about real world issues.
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Post by Rasq'uire'laskar on Fri Nov 21, 2008 5:17 pm

sargentbilco wrote:dont post racist shit here

Racist? How was anything I or Rot posted racist?

The people who call that racist, or John McCain's "That one" comment racist, are only trivializing real racism.

And I am sick. And I am tired of it.
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Post by PiEdude on Fri Nov 21, 2008 5:41 pm

BBJynne wrote:Real issues: like whether to eat cake or pie.

That's not an issue!

It's PiE, no contest.
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Post by BBJynne on Fri Nov 21, 2008 5:49 pm

PiElord wrote:
BBJynne wrote:Real issues: like whether to eat cake or pie.

That's not an issue!

It's PiE, no contest.

pie as in the food

not as in internet

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Post by PiEdude on Fri Nov 21, 2008 6:23 pm

BBJynne wrote:
PiElord wrote:
BBJynne wrote:Real issues: like whether to eat cake or pie.

That's not an issue!

It's PiE, no contest.

pie as in the food

not as in internet

Again, no contest.
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Post by BBJynne on Fri Nov 21, 2008 6:30 pm

NO U

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Post by CivBase on Fri Nov 21, 2008 8:04 pm

ReconToaster wrote:Seeing all the upset that came about after the banning of same sex marriage in California, I've gotten really tired of hearing about all these non-issues. The concepts of things like abortion and gay marriage are not really issues. They are distraction put forth by those in power to keep all you simple minded people away from thinking about the real problems in this world, like war, poverty, pollution, and health care.
Oh, and don't forget those pesky Xiis...

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Post by Rotaretilbo on Sat Nov 22, 2008 12:15 am

KristallNacht wrote:Then again, those ice ages were in a time when valcanoes and the like were rampant, generating similiar polution.

But, yes, mankind isn't THE problem, just A problem. But either way, there are ways we have of reversing the effects, of which some hippies say will fuck life up when nothing even sudgests that that even COULD happen.

I actually had this discussion with Leafy, and sudgested we should just speed it up so at least the planet can start again without the human race as an infection.

We can agree, at least, the humans aren't the main cause of temperature changes. I agree that we are certainly not helping the situation, but I also feel that the Earth is going to change temperatures with or without human help, and to claim otherwise is a absurd. I still can't believe Gore got a Nobel Prize...way to cheapen one of the greatest awards a scientist can strive for.

KristallNacht wrote:Lol cept he didn't make the internet.

Lies! Razz

Rasq'uire'laskar wrote:REAL issues - Page 2 Obama_11
REAL issues - Page 2 %7BC2097DD7-0778-4C56-B962-7651A4CB8F80%7D

I'm still wondering why the ACLU didn't rush to defend Joe the Plumber's privacy. Isn't the ACLU a "champion" of privacy?

Rasq'uire'laskar wrote:Oh my gawd! Separation of Church and State PLOX!

Blasted loop holes. It would really suck to see churches lose tax exempt status and go under...

sargentbilco wrote:dont post racist shit here

Erm, who was being racist?

ReconToaster wrote:Hey Rot, in the future, could you please avoid coming into my threads and spamming them with your intentionally long, content-less posts? If you want to multi-quote, go ahead, but saying "indeed" in response to someone's post doesn't really contribute.

I respond to all posts; it's what I do. If I agree with someone, I make it known. If someone posts exactly what I would have in that situation, I back them up by agreeing. If I find something funny, I let people know. All posts are equally important to me, so I don't skip any.

ReconToaster wrote:I did not say human life is worthless. I said this: "A human fetus is no more important than that of a sheep."

I love how you can't even quote yourself right. Aside from the fact that you were comparing humans with pigs, not sheep, you also said "I'm tired of so many fellow humans taking on the belief that they are so much more important than any other race." This was said in the context of comparing pigs to humans, so I assumed that you were referring to other animals in this statement (since racism against different ethnicity has nothing to do with abortion or the example you were giving). That is to say, you are tired of people believing they are more important than animals. And since we are no more important than animals, our fetuses are no more important than theirs. But the problem is, we are more important than animals, so by the direct analogy you were trying to make, that means our fetuses are more important than theirs as well.

ReconToaster wrote:In other words, human life is not inherently important. Human life is made special by the way in which it loves and contributes to the world. A human fetus does not love or contribute to the world. Nor does a sheep fetus.

That's because a human fetus hasn't even had a chance to try.

ReconToaster wrote:In other words, the fact that something has the word "HUMAN" stamped on it does not give it humanity.

So, by that measure, anyone who is not loving or contributive is not human, and so laws protecting humans should not apply to them? If I went out and stabbed a psychopath (one who cannot determine wrong from right) to death, would that equate to me killing an animal and not murder 1? Would I pay a fine, maybe serve community service, because the man I killed didn't love or contribute to the world? Your argument is inherently flawed.

ReconToaster wrote:BTW: actually, a casualty is pretty much anything that causes a soldier to not be able to fight, be it a wound or death. Don't make me bring dictionary.com into this.

I know. I don't recall saying that a casualty didn't include death. It just pertains to other things than death. The point was, 28000 casualties does not mean 28000 dead, which is what NT said, it means 28000 wounded or dead. Since only 4500 are actually dead, saying that we lost 28000 people in the war on terror is gross misinformation. The fact that you point this out leads me to believe that you didn't read my entire response to NT's post, since it was pretty clear that I understood that the dead were part of the casualty count, but not the entirety of the casualty count.

CivBase wrote:Actualy... you said pig, not sheep. And it'd be lamb, not sheep.

Technicalities, technicalities. Razz

CivBase wrote:Ah, but there is still a difference. A human fetus will love and contribute to the world. However, the same can't be said for the sheep fetus.

Potential is everything, here.

CivBase wrote:Sure it does.

Indeed (I apologize to Recon for backing up and supporting Civ in this point ahead of time, because I understand that he doesn't like reading long posts).

BBJynne wrote:Real issues: like whether to eat cake or pie.

The cake is a lie. The cake is a lie. The cake is a lie. The cake is a lie. The cake is a lie. The cake is a lie. The cake is a lie. The cake is a lie. The cake is a lie. The cake is a lie. The cake is a lie. The cake is a lie. The cake is a lie. The cake is a lie. The cake is a lie. The cake is a lie. The cake is a lie. The cake is a lie. The cake is a lie. The cake is a lie. The cake is a lie. The cake is a lie. The cake is a lie. The cake is a lie. The cake is a lie. The cake is a lie. The cake is a lie. The cake is a lie. The cake is a lie. The cake is a lie. The cake is a lie. The cake is a lie. The cake is a lie. The cake is a lie. The cake is a lie. The cake is a lie. The cake is a lie. The cake is a lie. The cake is a lie. The cake is a lie. The cake is a lie. The cake is a lie. The cake is a lie. The cake is a lie. The cake is a lie. The cake is a lie. The cake is a lie. The cake is a lie. The cake is a lie. The cake is a lie. The cake is a lie.

capn qwerty wrote:No, those are real gammer issues. This is about real world issues.

Any gamer with half a brain knows the cake is a lie, and thus would pick pi.

Rasq'uire'laskar wrote:Racist? How was anything I or Rot posted racist?

The people who call that racist, or John McCain's "That one" comment racist, are only trivializing real racism.

And I am sick. And I am tired of it.

Ya, I still don't know what bilco was referring to...I didn't see anyone being outright racist. We aren't even discussing race...with the exception of Recon saying that the human race is no better than the pig race in that one post...

PiElord wrote:That's not an issue!

It's PiE, no contest.

I prefer the term "pi" personally.

BBJynne wrote:pie as in the food

not as in internet

The cake is a lie, Jynne. On the Internet or in your home, it is still a lie.

PiElord wrote:Again, no contest.

I'm glad me and Pie can agree on something. Very Happy

BBJynne wrote:NO U

Hmm?

CivBase wrote:Oh, and don't forget those pesky Xiis...

I feel dumb asking, but could you clarify?

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Post by Onyxknight on Sat Nov 22, 2008 1:05 am

rot we're not talking about the math symbol -.- but why use pi?
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Post by CivBase on Sat Nov 22, 2008 9:22 am

Rotaretilbo wrote:
CivBase wrote:Oh, and don't forget those pesky Xiis...

I feel dumb asking, but could you clarify?
I just found it kinda funny that he's complaining that people don't pay attention to real issues, while in another thread he's acting like it's the end of the world because of some stupid avatars he'll never have to use.

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Post by Toaster on Sat Nov 22, 2008 11:30 am

CivBase wrote:
Rotaretilbo wrote:
CivBase wrote:Oh, and don't forget those pesky Xiis...

I feel dumb asking, but could you clarify?
I just found it kinda funny that he's complaining that people don't pay attention to real issues, while in another thread he's acting like it's the end of the world because of some stupid avatars he'll never have to use.

But did I ever call for federal intervention to take the avatars out?

All that I am saying about abortion is that i do not consider a human fetus to be inherently more important than that of any other species. Humans gain their humanity, they are not born with it. If i could sacrifice a human fetus for the life of a full grown human, who has acquired humanity, I would do it with no questions asked.

Yet people seem to disagree with stem cell research.
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Post by CivBase on Sat Nov 22, 2008 11:58 am

ReconToaster wrote:
CivBase wrote:
Rotaretilbo wrote:
CivBase wrote:Oh, and don't forget those pesky Xiis...

I feel dumb asking, but could you clarify?
I just found it kinda funny that he's complaining that people don't pay attention to real issues, while in another thread he's acting like it's the end of the world because of some stupid avatars he'll never have to use.

But did I ever call for federal intervention to take the avatars out?

All that I am saying about abortion is that i do not consider a human fetus to be inherently more important than that of any other species. Humans gain their humanity, they are not born with it. If i could sacrifice a human fetus for the life of a full grown human, who has acquired humanity, I would do it with no questions asked.

Yet people seem to disagree with stem cell research.
What makes a human a human? It's love of life? It's realization that it lives? Well, babies don't have that, so are you okay with sacrificing a born child for such a thing? Even children typicaly don't understand life, are you okay with sacrificing them? A fetus is no different. Just because something can't feel pain, does that make it okay to kill it? Well, paralized people typicaly can't feel pain, is it okay to kill them? Fetus can feel, hear, talk, smell, ect after just a few weeks. I see no reason to kill it just because it's in the mothers womb instead of outside. Is location a reason to justify murder?
And furthermore, you're not saving the life of an adult, you're donating the baby to sience so adults can conduct research on the corpse. Most of the time, not even that. I'm okay with stem cell research, but not if it requires abortion. They can go get their stem cells some other way.

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Post by BBJynne on Sat Nov 22, 2008 12:20 pm

ReconToaster wrote:Yet people seem to disagree with stem cell research.

I don't know what it is.

but if it doesn't hurt anyone I'm all for it.
(or at least if the people being hurt aren't seriously harmed and that they are volunteers and aware of the risk)

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Post by CivBase on Sat Nov 22, 2008 12:25 pm

BBJynne wrote:
ReconToaster wrote:Yet people seem to disagree with stem cell research.

I don't know what it is.

but if it doesn't hurt anyone I'm all for it.
(or at least if the people being hurt aren't seriously harmed and that they are volunteers and aware of the risk)
Your body is made up of trillions of cells, each with a designated use (muscle, skin, organs, nerves, ect). Stem cells, however, are cells that have no clearly defined purpose. As a blastosis develops, the cells mulitply and are assigned 'jobs' to carry out. Eventualy, this forms the human body. They are typicaly found in the spinal cords of humans. While they can be extracted from adults, they slightly more useful when extracted from an unborn embryo or fetus. The problem is that it kills the embryo or fetus. Because of this, hospitals are left with taking stem cells from aborted fetus and embryos. However, many view abortion as immoral (including me), and feel that it should be outlawed.
I'm all for stem cell research... just not from abortions.

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Post by BBJynne on Sat Nov 22, 2008 12:26 pm

does it directly kill the babies or provide a reason for their deaths?

or is it just using already dead ones?

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Post by CivBase on Sat Nov 22, 2008 12:31 pm

BBJynne wrote:does it directly kill the babies or provide a reason for their deaths?
It kills it if they take it from the live embryo/fetus, so yes. And what do you mean by provide a reason for their deaths?
BBJynne wrote:or is it just using already dead ones?
They typicaly use dead ones that were aborted, and many view abortion as wrong.
If it died and was not aborted and the stem cells can still be used and the parents agreed to donate it to science, then I see no reason why they shouldn't be able to do that.

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Post by BBJynne on Sat Nov 22, 2008 12:43 pm

but if it was aborted anyway then why not use it?

but if a baby was killed specifically to stem cell research then... no

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Post by CivBase on Sat Nov 22, 2008 12:48 pm

BBJynne wrote:but if it was aborted anyway then why not use it?

but if a baby was killed specifically to stem cell research then... no
Well, I think abortion is wrong. If it is aborted, then I suppose you can use it, but I don't think they should be aborted in the first place.

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Post by Don Corleone on Sat Nov 22, 2008 12:51 pm

well what if it has a disease or sumtin along those lines that would most likely kil it anyway?
wouldnt it be better to abort it and then actually use it?

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