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Post by Ringleader on Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:23 pm

Vigil wrote:Does anybody remember the weapons the Forerunner soldiers used in the brief flashback in the origin's episode of Halo Legends?

They used pistols that fired homing light projectiles that when fired in tandem with others would combine and form a wave of energy that sliced through anything in their path.

I could easily see that being a charge function for a solo pistol.

I'll admit, it's similar to the plasma pistol in design but it would be an interesting idea.

I try not to, but even that would've been an improvement over their weapons.
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Post by Vigil on Tue Nov 27, 2012 3:52 pm

And what about the secondary fire of that large sentinel in Halo 2?

I'd like a Heavy weapon that was a barrage of projectiles that did massive splash damage.

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Post by KristallNacht on Tue Nov 27, 2012 5:12 pm

Nocbl2 wrote:
KristallNacht wrote:
Ringleader wrote: They're Forerunners

Did you even play the game?
This.

Regardless, the weapons were still developed by Forerunners.

Nothing in the story even VAGUELY suggests that. While the weapons origins aren't spelled out, it would make more sense that they are human weapons than forerunner weapons.
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Post by Ringleader on Tue Nov 27, 2012 6:12 pm

Me too, that could've been the Forerunner heavy weapon, it fires a barrage of mortars on slower vehicles.
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Post by Ringleader on Tue Nov 27, 2012 6:45 pm

KristallNacht wrote:
Nocbl2 wrote:
KristallNacht wrote:
Ringleader wrote: They're Forerunners

Did you even play the game?
This.

Regardless, the weapons were still developed by Forerunners.

Nothing in the story even VAGUELY suggests that. While the weapons origins aren't spelled out, it would make more sense that they are human weapons than forerunner weapons.

Humans? Ok, did they still have thousands of years to make the weapons super advanced and powerful?

Again, I've only seen a playthrough of the first 3 levels, but I do recall that the Prometheans came in contact with Forerunner Sentinels, they probably could've reverse engineered their weapons, and maybe even improved upon them
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Post by Nocbl2 on Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:38 pm

Ringleader wrote:
KristallNacht wrote:
Nocbl2 wrote:
KristallNacht wrote:
Ringleader wrote: They're Forerunners

Did you even play the game?
This.

Regardless, the weapons were still developed by Forerunners.

Nothing in the story even VAGUELY suggests that. While the weapons origins aren't spelled out, it would make more sense that they are human weapons than forerunner weapons.

Humans? Ok, did they still have thousands of years to make the weapons super advanced and powerful?

Again, I've only seen a playthrough of the first 3 levels, but I do recall that the Prometheans came in contact with Forerunner Sentinels, they probably could've reverse engineered their weapons, and maybe even improved upon them
The Prometheans were ancient humans from 100,000-ish years prior who got Composed. If you didn't read the Forerunner Saga, then you wouldn't know that there was a war between the two and the humans got de-evolved in the end. Which left the Forerunners to be overwhelmed by the Flood, who were pushing humans into Forerunner territory.
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Post by Ascendant Justice on Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:41 pm

However its all explained in a short 45sec movie in Halo 4's campaign.
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Post by KristallNacht on Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:43 pm

Ringleader wrote:
Humans? Ok, did they still have thousands of years to make the weapons super advanced and powerful?

Again, I've only seen a playthrough of the first 3 levels, but I do recall that the Prometheans came in contact with Forerunner Sentinels, they probably could've reverse engineered their weapons, and maybe even improved upon them

We don't even know if the prometheans were even active during the intervening time.
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Post by Rasq'uire'laskar on Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:03 am

KristallNacht wrote:
Nocbl2 wrote:
KristallNacht wrote:
Ringleader wrote: They're Forerunners

Did you even play the game?
This.

Regardless, the weapons were still developed by Forerunners.

Nothing in the story even VAGUELY suggests that. While the weapons origins aren't spelled out, it would make more sense that they are human weapons than forerunner weapons.
Wrong.

If you read the books, you'd realize that the gap between the defeat of the Humans and Didact's entrance into the Forerunner-Flood war is on the order of 9,000 years. That means that the already-outdated Human weapons were even more ancient by the time the Promethean Knights were made, assuming that stocks of Human weaponry was kept around in a warehouse for no reason.

Also, the "Human weapons will always feel like Human weapons" idea is absurd, but I'm going to need to write a big post to explain why. And I don't want to do THAT until finals are over.
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Post by KristallNacht on Wed Nov 28, 2012 6:04 pm

I say weapons will always feel like weapons. We don't know that weaponry can really evolve in any other way than they have.
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Post by Dud Doodoo on Wed Nov 28, 2012 6:42 pm

I don't understand the argument here. There is as much variance from the covenant weapons to the human weapons as there is for Promethean weapons to the others. Each fills an already balanced role in the lineup, a tradition bungie started. Regardless of practical variance I personally find them to be aesthetically appealing, as with the human and covenant weapons. In fact, the small changes they made to the look and feel of these weapons was one of the first things I realized I liked about the game.

The changes to the appearance of the covenant I could understand being a problem. What the fuck is up with the grunts? And their voices? Reach was cool in that it made the covenant feel more alien, but the sounds that come from the grunts are little more than irritating. They should speak English.

KristallNacht wrote:I say weapons will always feel like weapons. We don't know that weaponry can really evolve in any other way than they have.
One of the least intelligent things I've heard you say. Of course weapons can evolve in ways other than they have! Look at our own history, in a mere 10,000 years of warfare we have seen weapon styles evolve and abstract themselves beyond the comprehension of the cavemen that pioneered the hand-axe. We've only used projectile guns for the past 600 years or so, yet already we are witnessing war changing into new strange forms such as cyberwarfare. The methods by which a hundred thousand + year old society obliterates itself with would certainly be unrelatable to modern weaponry. Halo stuck to the modern arsenal because it would be a strain to come up with new ideas entirely, and the standard player can understand it with little introduction.

To say that in reality we don't know if weaponry can really evolve in ways different than it already has is absurd. Please mount a dunce.

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Post by Ringleader on Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:05 pm

KristallNacht wrote:
Ringleader wrote:
Humans? Ok, did they still have thousands of years to make the weapons super advanced and powerful?

Again, I've only seen a playthrough of the first 3 levels, but I do recall that the Prometheans came in contact with Forerunner Sentinels, they probably could've reverse engineered their weapons, and maybe even improved upon them

We don't even know if the prometheans were even active during the intervening time.
They must've been sleeping, until YOU showed up of course. Their guns can assemble themselves from pieces on the ground... How primitive do you think they are?!

And no, I didn't read the Forerunner saga, because the Forerunners are supposed to be a big mystery. Sometimes big mysteries shouldn't be explained, it's because mysteries and intrigue are inherently interesting, even a little sexy. All this is lost when they're explained, now matter how good the explanation. Like the force.

The Promethean weapons are boring and unoriginal, for a sci-fi VIDEO GAME, point settled.















Design a forerunner weapon contest, five dolla.
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Post by KristallNacht on Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:11 pm

dud. I said we don't KNOW, and you counter with a speculation? I never said they can't, we just don't know if they can. Outside of ammo/projectile types nothing has been shown even in Sci-fi.

And RL, they aren't any less original than C&C, Starship Troopers, Star Wars, Star Trek, 2001: A Space Odyssey.

What kind of sci-fi are you referring to?
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Post by Ringleader on Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:29 pm

Well, a FPS sci-fi universe, in which your sole objective is to hold and shoot guns at things in an interactive environment, not 2001 A Space Odyssey...

In the context of the Halo universe, in where there's already 2 sniper weapons, a shotgun, 3 other medium range headshot weapons, and a magnum, a universe that has in the past given players access to a wide array of neat, interesting, and original guns, pretty darn unoriginal I'd say.
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Post by KristallNacht on Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:45 pm

which is in itself, MORE weapons than any sci-fi property has. We've already agree'd painkiller-esque weapons wouldn't work for halo, so please give some EXAMPLES of what you would have made.
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Post by Ringleader on Wed Nov 28, 2012 8:21 pm

More than Borderlands? Besides, they're more of the same, which is like getting pooped on by 343 given their (Bungie's) previous work. The guns just look different, and can assemble themselves but yet don't behave any differently than preexisting weapons, despite being all advanced looking...

I already given some ideas for what they could've done with the Forerunner guns, read my Halo 4 megapost, or my more recent Halo 4 superpost.
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Post by KristallNacht on Wed Nov 28, 2012 8:50 pm

99% of borderlands weapons are LITERALLY the same weapon with different states and paint....that hardly counts, since that's an RPG gameplay mechanic.

and they do behave differently. They disintegrate people. Meaning its entire means of functioning and projectile are different.
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Post by Ringleader on Wed Nov 28, 2012 8:55 pm

And yet the play EXACTLY THE SAME...

The Forerunner guns are poop, I'm sorry, but they just are.
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Post by KristallNacht on Wed Nov 28, 2012 8:57 pm

When did you get to play with forerunner guns?
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Post by Ringleader on Wed Nov 28, 2012 9:00 pm

When did you get to play with forerunner guns?

I don't know if it's considered playing, but there was this one time the toilet backed up.

I used gloves so I didn't actually get to touch them.
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Post by Ascendant Justice on Wed Nov 28, 2012 10:12 pm

Ringleader wrote:
When did you get to play with forerunner guns?

I don't know if it's considered playing, but there was this one time the toilet backed up.

I used gloves so I didn't actually get to touch them.

I had something similar, except mine was more akin to a "scattershot" effect around the room. Wasnt pretty.
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Post by Nocbl2 on Thu Nov 29, 2012 12:32 am

Ringleader wrote:
KristallNacht wrote:
Ringleader wrote:
Humans? Ok, did they still have thousands of years to make the weapons super advanced and powerful?

Again, I've only seen a playthrough of the first 3 levels, but I do recall that the Prometheans came in contact with Forerunner Sentinels, they probably could've reverse engineered their weapons, and maybe even improved upon them

We don't even know if the prometheans were even active during the intervening time.
They must've been sleeping, until YOU showed up of course. Their guns can assemble themselves from pieces on the ground... How primitive do you think they are?!

And no, I didn't read the Forerunner saga, because the Forerunners are supposed to be a big mystery. Sometimes big mysteries shouldn't be explained, it's because mysteries and intrigue are inherently interesting, even a little sexy. All this is lost when they're explained, now matter how good the explanation. Like the force.

The Promethean weapons are boring and unoriginal, for a sci-fi VIDEO GAME, point settled.















Design a forerunner weapon contest, five dolla.
Except even in the Forerunner books they aren't really explained. It's sort of like Heinlein's Stranger in a Strange land. You are sort of given a few tidbits but the rest is left shady and mysterious, always a tad questionable.

I don't see why people didn't want the Forerunners to be revealed. They add a new depth to the EU that wasn't there before.

As for the weapons, it makes sense for them to be human. The time between Human/Forerunner War and Forerunner/Flood War was less than one hundred years, as I understood it. It happened so quickly because the Flood was right on humanity's tail. We'd defeated them for a while with a sort of "fire line" technique--send the infected forward into enemy lines and basically cause Halo's effect but on a smaller scale. Naturally, once this stopped the Flood progressed forth into the Forerunners, whereupon the Didact was imprisoned in the Cryptum, and later released by Bornstellar. It was less than half a millennium later when the events of Primordium took place, in full at least. I assume Silentium will detail the Ur-Didact's captivity in Requiem, but for now I think it safe to assume the rings had not yet fired. I say this because the Didact did not act at all like his predecessor did in Halo 4. He seemed a little more benevolent in Halo 3's terminals. If that is the case, having humanity use some of their own, updated weaponry might still be plausible. It was only a few hundred years, and who knows, maybe he had only composed these individuals right before his sentence to exile.
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Post by Rasq'uire'laskar on Thu Nov 29, 2012 1:15 am

Nocbl2 wrote:
As for the weapons, it makes sense for them to be human. The time between Human/Forerunner War and Forerunner/Flood War was less than one hundred years, as I understood it.
Nine thousand plus years. Didact's isolation in the Cryptum was explicitly stated to be nine thousand years. He went into isolation after defeating Humanity, learning about the Flood, devising ways to combat the Flood, and losing to the Master Builder, who wanted create the Halo array.

The Flood retreated for some reason. The Forerunner initially thought that Humanity had somehow defeated the Flood. Initially.
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Post by Ringleader on Thu Nov 29, 2012 4:43 am

Alright, look, all I'm saying is that the Forerunner/Promethean (or whoever the hell they are) guns should be a little more creative in the way they look and fire, and maybe have a little more kick.

Because the self-assembling ancient super guns should maybe be a little more powerful than our guns.
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Post by KristallNacht on Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:22 am

Ringleader wrote:Alright, look, all I'm saying is that the Forerunner/Promethean (or whoever the hell they are) guns should be a little more creative in the way they look and fire, and maybe have a little more kick.

Because the self-assembling ancient super guns should maybe be a little more powerful than our guns.

So your first point is "I just don't like it....no real reason...I just don't like it"

and the second point is a clear game breaker.


Way to go.
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