Dead Space 3

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Post by Rotaretilbo on Wed Apr 17, 2013 8:53 pm

The plot was the sort of uninspired shit I expect from a cover-based action shooter. The narrative and dialog was even worse. The love interest thing was just painful.

Fighting the Unitologists was a lot more frequent than 5%. It was probably in the order of 20% or even 30%, and since these sequences completely abandon all elements of survival horror, they severely detract from the environment, which was one of Dead Space's strongest elements in past games.

The universal ammo system is retarded. Part of the tension in previous games came from the unavailability of ammunition, and having to manage ammunition for multiple guns if you wanted to have the more broken weapons. Along with the crafting system, you not only don't have to shoot the limbs of Unitologists, but you can also very easily design guns which one-shot Necromorphs in the chest and never have to worry about ammo. Being this broken really detracts from the tension. Running low on ammo somehow? Not to worry. Because the game is designed to allow for co-op, rather than hard saves within the campaign, you just save your character, including your ammo, and can redo levels at your leisure. What does that mean? It means you can fucking farm ammo for free. Again, since this is supposed to be a survival horror game, detracting from the tension is bad.

Overall, Dead Space 3 is a decent survival horror game that turns into a mediocre action shooter after five hours of playing. Also, microtransactions, because fuck everything.

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Post by Lord Pheonix on Wed Apr 17, 2013 9:07 pm

If you honestly believe this series is Survival Horror than your just joking yourself. It was Action Horror above Survival.

When the first gun you are given is one that shreds the limbs off of the scary monsters that are trying to kill you and then you can use Telekinesis to fling those limbs across the room to impale them it's not "Survival" it's "Action" with horror elements.


And the Micro-transactions are a non issue, I played through the entire game on hardcore and not once was I hurting so bad for items that I thought about buying the materials. The robots you get from just playing normally make items finding easy enough that no one would be forced to pay money unless they wanted to speed their game up a tad bit.


I never had an ammo issue in the first two games either. I'd run a bit low sometimes but I could always find more or craft myself some more if I was in dire need which I had to do in this game as well. If you are shitting your pants and scared because you are low on ammo you are a bad shot.


And cover based combat was a non issue as well since you didn't even have to use it at all. You have a crouch button that you can hide behind the crates but it wasn't gears of war style duck behind cover. You could press X and crouch and then when you aim you'd un-crouch. Or you could not use that feature at all and just stand behind large man sized boxes or around corners like I did forgetting their even was a cover system in the first place.


Did you actually play DS3 Rot or did you watch a Let's Play or read reviews and call it "good enough"?

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Post by Lord Pheonix on Wed Apr 17, 2013 9:24 pm

Rotaretilbo wrote:The plot was the sort of uninspired shit I expect from a cover-based action shooter. The narrative and dialog was even worse. The love interest thing was just painful.

Fighting the Unitologists was a lot more frequent than 5%. It was probably in the order of 20% or even 30%, and since these sequences completely abandon all elements of survival horror, they severely detract from the environment, which was one of Dead Space's strongest elements in past games.


Lord Pheonix wrote:If you honestly believe this series is Survival Horror than your just joking yourself. It was Action Horror above Survival.

When the first gun you are given is one that shreds the limbs off of the scary monsters that are trying to kill you and then you can use Telekinesis to fling those limbs across the room to impale them it's not "Survival" it's "Action" with horror elements.



Survival
Horror at it's best.

Fighting those humans really gets rid of all that Surviving by the skin of your teeth moments like in the old game there huh?
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Post by Rotaretilbo on Wed Apr 17, 2013 11:20 pm

The survival horror genre started with a game where you had a gun. Dead Space may not have been the best survival horror game, but it was still survival horror. There was a lot of tension, especially on the higher difficulties where ammo was scarce. Is that body going to get up and fuck my shit up? Is a necromorph going to drop out of one of the 50 vents in the ceiling of this room? The third person controls were intentionally clunky to make it harder to aim. Running out of ammo as three necromorphs drop around you could really induce panic.

That sort of thing just isn't as present in Dead Space 3. It's like the elements that made Dead Space a survival horror game are clearly on the back burner. The plot is mediocre, the narrative is shit, and EA took a steaming dump all over the tension. If you want to play a mediocre cover-based action shooter, just play Shootshoot Bangbang. At least their microtransactions are purely cosmetic, rather than Dead Space 3's pay to craft system.

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Post by Lord Pheonix on Wed Apr 17, 2013 11:27 pm

I don't agree with literally everything you just said. Very Happy

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Post by Nocbl2 on Wed Apr 17, 2013 11:55 pm

Honestly, the whole reason I play Dead Space is for the tension. If that isn't there then it really isn't Dead Space for me anymore.

What is unfortunate is that such tense games as DS 1 and 2 (despite, as the video LP posted shows, not really being survival horror) are not as present as they were in days gone by, at least on mainstream markets. If Dead Space 3 is just shootshoot bangbang but with space zombies, I fear it has gone too deep into the waters of "visceral action" rather than "fast-paced action/horror."
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Post by Lord Pheonix on Thu Apr 18, 2013 12:08 am

It plays exactly the same as the last two games and has pretty much 0 cover based combat.

The way Rot keeps pointing out microtransactions and cover based combat is the reason I don't believe he's even played the game cause if he had he'd know that microtransactions have absolutely no affect on your gameplay in the slightest and you literally never have to take cover. You can fight the humans the same way you would fight the baby necromorphs that would shoot at you or the acid firing ones. Their is no dependence on taking cover whatsoever and the atmosphere of the game is basically the same as the last two. The only difference is that this is the THIRD TIME you are playing this game and it's not as dark in parts of the game so could it not be possible that you've gotten used to basically the same game with the same premise and atmosphere after playing the third in the series? (not that I think Rot has actually played it)

In a gameplay sense it plays the same as the other two games except you can make your own weapons. Every single other point of physically playing the game is the same. If you took Dead Space 2 and 3 and played them side by side you'd be playing the exact same way. The only difference is that Dead Space 3 lets you press a button and Isaac will bend his knees. But apparently that shit is game breaking and makes it the exact same as Call of Duty. Again: Don't think Rot has actually played the game and he's just hating on what he has seen from second or third hand experiences or even worse - prerelease footage.

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Post by Rotaretilbo on Thu Apr 18, 2013 3:36 pm

Lord Pheonix wrote:I don't agree with literally everything you just said. Very Happy

That's because you're an idiot. But let's humor you and go through literally everything I just said.

Rotaretilbo wrote:The survival horror genre started with a game where you had a gun.

Not sure how you can disagree with this, since it is a fact. The original survival horror game, Resident Evil, provided the player with a weapon. Some of the best survival horror games have done likewise. For example, Silent Hill provides the player with a gun very early on.

Rotaretilbo wrote:Dead Space may not have been the best survival horror game, but it was still survival horror.

The original Dead Space features all the same elements that defined other successful survivor horror genres. It featured dark, cramped environments that limited vision, masterful sound effects and music, enemies that tend to come at the player in an indirect manner or to come out of nowhere before engaging the player, scarcity of resources necessary to defend one's self, etc. No matter how much you insist, Dead Space was a survival horror game.

Rotaretilbo wrote:There was a lot of tension, especially on the higher difficulties where ammo was scarce.

If you did not experience any tension playing Dead Space, then survival horror probably isn't the genre for you. It would also explain why you couldn't tell the difference between Dead Space and Dead Space 3.

Rotaretilbo wrote:Is that body going to get up and fuck my shit up?

Generally speaking, if you're not expecting a dead body to jump up at you suddenly, it is surprising when it does it. And if you are expecting a dead body to jump up at you, you will become increasingly paranoid because there are a lot of dead bodies in the game. This could be especially tense if you had to decide whether or not to potentially waste ammunition on an ostensibly dead body to ensure it was dead.

Rotaretilbo wrote:Is a necromorph going to drop out of one of the 50 vents in the ceiling of this room?

While certain rooms only featured a handful of vents, making the necromorphs somewhat predictable, there were quite a handful of larger, more open rooms. One comes to mind in the second chapter, which featured dozens of vents across the ceiling and walls. Trying to predict where necromorphs would come from was very difficult in these rooms, leading to paranoia.

Rotaretilbo wrote:The third person controls were intentionally clunky to make it harder to aim.

I don't know how you can disagree with this. The third person controls were specifically designed to be clunky because Isaac is in heavy engineer blast armor and isn't proficient with weapons.

Rotaretilbo wrote:Running out of ammo as three necromorphs drop around you could really induce panic.

Again, if you didn't derive any tension from suddenly being surrounded as you ran out of ammo, you shouldn't bother with survival horror.

Rotaretilbo wrote:That sort of thing just isn't as present in Dead Space 3. It's like the elements that made Dead Space a survival horror game are clearly on the back burner.

This is just a fact. Universal ammo means that all of your guns always have ammo at any time. Fights with Unitologists break the tense atmosphere that Dead Space is known for, and quickly devolve into simple action shooters.

Rotaretilbo wrote:The plot is mediocre, the narrative is shit

The last battalion of EarthGov needs your help to go rescue your love interest. Meanwhile, Unitologists are making more markers, because why the fuck not. Isaac and the last battalion travel to some random colony, but their ship is blown up. They escape, and land on a derelict vessel which both happens to be infested with necromorphs and happens to also be the refuge of Isaac's love interest and company. Isaac's competition for Ellie turns out to be a complete asshole and for no reason whatsoever decides to betray Isaac to the Unitologists, because obviously the guys activating markers all over the galaxy are totally cool, and then surprise surprise the Unitologists try to betray him and kill everyone. And then Norton tries to kill Isaac, because obviously we hadn't been heavy handed enough about how Isaac was a better match for Ellie. Then they find this frozen alien that tells them that they were dumb for just arbitrarily assuming that this was the marker homeworld, and that the moon is actually a giant necromorph and they can use the Codex and the Machine to either magically free or destroy the moon. Then the Unitologists capture Isaac and company. Ellie confesses her love for Isaac and sacrifices herself so they can escape, which wouldn't be so fucking cliche if it wasn't revealed almost immediately thereafter that she was actually still alive. Isaac trades the Codex (you know, the thing that can either save or condemn all mankind) for this fickle bitch who has apparently been dating the world's biggest asshole instead of him for the last who knows how long. That Unitologist bitch uses the Codex to free the super necromorph moon thing, but is ironically killed because of it (ironic, but also extremely cliche). Isaac let's Ellie escape, and then heroically sacrifices himself to destroy the necromorph moon thing.

Honestly, I'm pretty sure Ax Cop is better written than this shit.

Rotaretilbo wrote:and EA took a steaming dump all over the tension.

This is pretty much undeniable. EA forced in elements which severely detract from any form of tension, such as the universal ammo system, microtransactions to craft OP weapons, and the ability to farm resources through the save character system.

Rotaretilbo wrote:If you want to play a mediocre cover-based action shooter, just play Shootshoot Bangbang.

Honestly, Shootshoot Bangbang is a better game than Dead Space 3.

Rotaretilbo wrote:At least their microtransactions are purely cosmetic, rather than Dead Space 3's pay to craft system.

This is a fact. Microtransactions in Shootshoot Bangbang have been purely cosmetic. Microtransactions in Dead Space 3 affect gameplay.

Lord Pheonix wrote:It plays exactly the same as the last two games

Where "last two games" here refers to the last two Shootshoot Bangbang games.

Lord Pheonix wrote:and has pretty much 0 cover based combat.

Just because one person chose to ignore the cover system doesn't mean there isn't a cover system. It would be like saying Gears of War has no cover-based combat because you didn't have to use it.

Lord Pheonix wrote:The way Rot keeps pointing out microtransactions and cover based combat is the reason I don't believe he's even played the game cause if he had he'd know that microtransactions have absolutely no affect on your gameplay in the slightest

You use the microtransactions to buy crafting supplies. Last time I checked, the ability to craft incredibly broken weapons which can one-hit the super necromorphs in the chest in the highest difficulty would be considered having an effect on the gameplay.

Lord Pheonix wrote:and you literally never have to take cover. You can fight the humans the same way you would fight the baby necromorphs that would shoot at you or the acid firing ones.

So you're saying that the Unitologists climb around on the walls, stop briefly, fire a slow projectile at you, and then go back to climbing around? Because last time I checked, that's not at all how the Unitologists behave. If I'm not mistaken, the Unitologists shoot guns at you.

Lord Pheonix wrote:Their is no dependence on taking cover whatsoever and the atmosphere of the game is basically the same as the last two. The only difference is that this is the THIRD TIME you are playing this game and it's not as dark in parts of the game so could it not be possible that you've gotten used to basically the same game with the same premise and atmosphere after playing the third in the series? (not that I think Rot has actually played it)

In a gameplay sense it plays the same as the other two games except you can make your own weapons. Every single other point of physically playing the game is the same. If you took Dead Space 2 and 3 and played them side by side you'd be playing the exact same way. The only difference is that Dead Space 3 lets you press a button and Isaac will bend his knees. But apparently that shit is game breaking and makes it the exact same as Call of Duty. Again: Don't think Rot has actually played the game and he's just hating on what he has seen from second or third hand experiences or even worse - prerelease footage.

Heh. Yes, the atmosphere is exactly the same. I remember the parts where Dead Space devolved into an action shooter with human enemies who aren't even slightly scary and a cover system, or where I was never ever ever out of ammunition, or where I could one-hit every single enemy without bothering to aim for the limbs with the weapon for which I had unlimited ammo. Oh wait, I don't, because those things didn't happen.

If you think that the atmosphere in Dead Space and the atmosphere in Dead Space 3 are the same, then you must literally be brain dead.

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Post by Lord Pheonix on Thu Apr 18, 2013 4:45 pm

I'm just going to put TL;DR because you decided to be an asshole and insult me when I have done nothing but be civil and simply said I disagreed with you. Valid reason to call me an idiot.


So i'm not going to read your post or even respond to it anymore. Congrats, you won? Hope you feel good about it. You earned it with your obviously superior debate skills.

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Post by Nocbl2 on Thu Apr 18, 2013 7:39 pm

Don't entice him.

My question is, from someone who has PLAYED THE GAME and who has similar taste in games as I do, is it fun? Were you raging, was it intense, or neutral?
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Post by Rotaretilbo on Thu Apr 18, 2013 8:09 pm

Lord Pheonix wrote:I'm just going to put TL;DR because you decided to be an asshole and insult me when I have done nothing but be civil and simply said I disagreed with you. Valid reason to call me an idiot.


So i'm not going to read your post or even respond to it anymore. Congrats, you won? Hope you feel good about it. You earned it with your obviously superior debate skills.

Oh, did the mean old Rotaretilbo hurt the poor Pheonix's feelings? Grow up. You're probably one of the single-most abrasive people here on TCF. I mean, for fuck's sake, you just made an entire thread devoted to saying Rasq isn't a gamer because he hasn't played a few big titles. There were word filters in place for who knows how long insulting both Tyler and Noc. We even tell time by insulting Noc for being so young. If me calling you an idiot, which is probably one of the least offensive insults possible, is too much, then I really don't know what to say. Honestly, you should have expected some animosity for playing devil's advocate on an issue like this.

It's pretty much universally agreed, both by people who have not and people who have played the game, that the game is nothing more than mediocre. I went and looked up some six reviews while I was at work today. One felt that Dead Space 3 was a good game. Every single other one ranged from "it was mediocre" to "it was awful". Most reviewers felt that Dead Space 3 was boring. Even the review that rated Dead Space 3 admitted that the story was incredibly weak. The plot just wasn't there. It was just a thinly veiled excuse to move you between environments. The character design was incredibly cliche, and Isaac feels more contradictory than ever (and that's saying a lot, given Dead Space 2).

All of the reviews noted that the game felt disjointed, with the early stages of the game spent in the debris field feeling like previous games, while the rest of the game felt like every other shooter. Most of the reviews noted that the combat was all really repetitive and really predictable. Walk into Room A. Fight wave of necromorphs. Retrieve Item A. Walk into Room B. Fight wave of necromorphs. Retrieve Item B. Repeat. It was also noted multiple times that there was a lot of backtracking through repopulated environments, reusing models and rooms and the like, that sort of shit.

Most of the reviewers also noted that the game lacked a lot of the tension, likely due to an absence of the elements that created tension in the first game. While most were kind towards the weapon crafting system, it was noted that the crafting system took considerably longer to work with than the work benches of games past, which meant that they disrupted the pacing a lot more. It was also noted that being able to build a weapon that one-hit necromorphs in the chest was a major deviation from the core gameplay of Dead Space. Also, it was noted that the universal ammunition system meant that you were never running low on ammo.

All-in-all, almost all reviewers noted that the game had abandoned its horror roots in order to try and please a wider audience. Most noted that, in that respect, it had ultimately failed, as the game was lacking in any kind of innovation to separate it from the myriad of other bland shooters. Ironically, most of the reviewers praised the co-op element. They argued that, since the game had already removed all elements of tension or horror, the co-op didn't really harm it. On the other hand, most noted that having a friend present made the grind of necromorph waves and the like a little more fun. It was also noted that co-op campaigns are few and far between, and Carver felt like more than a faceless second avatar, and even had things to make his playthrough feel different, like unique hallucinations and the like. It was noted, however, that there were parts of the campaign where it felt like the game was telling you to play the co-op, like spawning a wave of necromorphs in front of and behind you just to be a dick, and that given this, it was strange that they didn't allow for split-screen co-op campaign.

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Post by Lord Pheonix on Thu Apr 18, 2013 8:30 pm

Difference is i'm joking around and just messing with people. I joke with Tyler and made up a hatred of him for no reason as a joke between us and have no ill will in it at all which is obvious since we talk pretty much every night on Skype so it's rather apparent that I am not actually insulting him.

Pointing out Nocbls age is an insult then fuck me man, i'm sorry that he was born in a year not longer from this point. Pretty sure he knows it's not serious.

The Rasq thread is in jest as I found all that out while talking to him for a few hours on skype and him and I laughing while I "raged" about him not being a "real gamer". I didn't think anyone could take that as serious but I guess i'm wrong.


You on the other hand in a difference of opinion over a game that YOU NEVER EVEN PLAYED decided to insult me for the reason of.....having a different opinion than you? Oh wait, it's not even a different opinion than you - I have a different opinion than the other peoples opinions that you read online. Totally good reason to insult me. Good one chap.

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Post by Nocbl2 on Thu Apr 18, 2013 10:59 pm

FTR, I know it's not serious.

But guys, take it to PM's when it gets personal. I'm pretty sure that's why we have those, right?
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Post by dragoon9105 on Fri Apr 19, 2013 12:35 am

PM's hell no this is an entertaining read.
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Post by CivBase on Fri Apr 19, 2013 8:33 am

dragoon9105 wrote:PM's hell no this is an entertaining read.
qft


This is also relevant

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Post by KrAzY on Fri Apr 19, 2013 7:16 pm

I am actually suprised that anyone takes anything pheonix says as serious... I cant remember the last time he wasnt joking around
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Post by Lord Pheonix on Fri Apr 19, 2013 9:33 pm

I named myself Lord and christened myself a God for Christ sakes lol

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Post by Rasq'uire'laskar on Fri Apr 19, 2013 10:35 pm

KrAzY wrote:I am actually suprised that anyone takes anything pheonix says as serious... I cant remember the last time he wasnt joking around
Sometimes, I find it hard to tell the difference. Although realizing that he's joking most of the time makes some of his politics make sense.
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Post by Lord Pheonix on Sat Apr 20, 2013 3:00 pm

I stand by my "kill all children" platform.

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Post by Ascendant Justice on Fri May 31, 2013 12:23 pm

.....

>.>



<.<



.....................................I liked Dead Space 3........
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Post by Vigil on Fri May 31, 2013 12:41 pm

Got it a few days ago.

So far... Fuck this game.

It seems to be maliciously designed to get as many cheap hits on you as possible. Also the plasma cutter feels completely nerfed.

Mid-game edit: got onto the second disc and after pouring a lot of attachments and upgrades into the plasma cutter, it's finally becoming somewhat viable.

Oh and I lost 30 minutes of progress because when you select save and quit from the pause menu it only saves your inventory, so I had to go through all what I done before with less items than I had to start with. Fucking brilliant design decision there.

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Post by CivBase on Sat Jun 01, 2013 1:59 pm

So the interesting mechanic of Dead Space, cutting of their limbs with a plasma cutter, has lost viability? That makes me want that game so bad I just might never get it.

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Post by Vigil on Sat Jun 01, 2013 3:47 pm

CivBase wrote:So the interesting mechanic of Dead Space, cutting of their limbs with a plasma cutter, has lost viability? That makes me want that game so bad I just might never get it.

I've got to Chapter 15 out of 19 where I've mainly tried to use the Plasma Cutter.

It's really difficult, and you have to use Stasis all the time. The cutting mechanic is still helpful, but the problem is that most enemies are in mass and move super fast, so you can't fire fast enough with it to cut them up before at least one reaches you, and that's after pumping rate of fire upgrades into it.

It's really frustrating.



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Post by Lord Pheonix on Sat Jun 01, 2013 3:50 pm

I used the plasma cutter almost the entire game and didn't have any problems with killing using it. Had some kind of bonus part on it from playing the other games that made it super awesome.


That was before I found parts to make a assault rifle and added a suppression system or something to it to make it a sniper rifle and added a ton of damage up parts to it to make it ridiculously powerful though. And rate of fire so it didn't take forever to shoot each shot.

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Dead Space 3 - Page 2 Empty Re: Dead Space 3

Post by Vigil on Sat Jun 01, 2013 3:57 pm

Yeah, I'm using the Planet Cracker one you get from playing Dead Space 2.
It's tolerable, but I always get hit at least once during a fight as the shear number of enemies means I always get caught.

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A still more glorious dawn awaits.
Not a sunrise, but a galaxy rise
A morning filled with 400 billion suns
The rising of the milky way

You can fight like a Krogan, run like a Leopard
But you'll never be better than Commander Shepard
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