Halo 4

Everyone knows where the line is drawn or where the limit is. That being said though, everyone's line/limit is different.

Rasq'uire'laskar wrote:

Ringleader wrote:

CivBase wrote:Ring... them adding or getting rid of a piece of MC's armor is NOT the end of the world...

You know, you're right, everything's fine, just fine, who even cares anymore, everything, just fine, thanks.

I'm not going to use sarcasm here. I'm not going to joke. I'm not going to make fun of you. I'm just going to use short, simple words and basic grammar so you can't possibly misunderstand what I'm saying.

When we say "This is not the end of the world", we're saying that we are giving this game
a chance. We're not going to gloss over the errors and pretend like they didn't happen. We're going to point out what's wrong, organize petitions or whatever it takes to get them to change it.
But we're not writing it off. Not yet.

Uh huh, actually I think the second part of my post (the part you didn't quote) addressed that concern, 343's aesthetic decision making is clearly less then what we should expect from a company that's about to take over one of the largest video game IPs of all time.

So again I ask, why give them the benefit of the doubt? Are you actually willing to complain to 343? Knowing your going to get shot down immediately by people that aren't bothered as much or not at all like what's already happening here?

Ringleader wrote:343's track record of fail with the Halo Legends series is on par with the special Olympics bronze medalists in the wheelchair high jump, why give them the benefit of the doubt?

Legends=Fail
Evolutions=Win
Cryptum=Win
Halo: CEA=Win

Hey, look, 343i just averaged out to 75%!
Now, let me tell you something. 343i is not Ensemble. They listen. I've seen them back down from a bad idea when the fanbase rose in unision! So I'm going to tell them what I like, I'm going to make it known what I dislike, and I'm going to be optimistic.

The trouble with that is, for every one person to stand up and say 'no, that's a bad idea', theres 10 to say it's an amazing idea and an addition 5 to shut him down. I mean, remember how vocal WE were in the weeks and months before the release of Halo Wars? How much good did that do?

Let me ask, why do you say Halo Legends fails? Mind you the people that actually BUY Halo Legends aren't by any means characteristic of Halo players in their understanding of the story and canon, yet even of this demographic, the reviews speak for themselves:

http://www.amazon.com/Halo-Legends-Various-Artists/dp/B00319ECD8

http://www.amazon.com/Halo-Legends-Blu-ray-Luci-Christian/dp/B002WCLG3O

http://www.comicbookmovie.com/anime__manga/news/?a=14839

http://dvd.ign.com/articles/106/1067327p1.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnlStGqcK_w


In general, positive. You're severely overselling the average Halo fan's ability to recognize 'fails' and 'wins' when they see them. Also, the extent to which 343 could change things for no reason at all and the player base not say a peep is a lot greater then you think, it's by no means a 'last line of defense' when it comes to protecting a franchise from stupid things in games.

The first link is to the Halo Legends music... not the actual series.

Ringleader, you honestly have zero idea what the Halo fanbase is. All you have are three-year old memories of the Halo Wars forums. You've never on HBO. You treat all my attempts to show that the Halo fanbase ISN'T entirely made up of idiots with contempt. Hell, you didn't even read all the reviews of Halo: Legends on Amazon.com: I didn't have to go far for one that was negative.

Honestly, I can take it. Maybe. But when you Halopedia with utter contempt in one conversation, and then turn around and use it as a source, it becomes clear that you need to re-evaluate your position.

Felix wrote:

Ringleader wrote:You don't know what I mean? Well, because you only quoted the first half of the original statement you had quoted fully before, you know, the part where I said that Halo Wars was basically just a game made for fanboys.

The entire concept of Halo Wars? The RTS aspect of it? Granted the final product wasn't as good as I wanted it to be, but it was made for fans of Halo. But seeing as how you're making a mod of halo (I forgot the orginal game's name) are you making a game for fanboys too?

Well, no, if it actually was made for the fans, and not the fanBOYS, then they would have taken the trouble not to retcon anything or have anything incredibly stupid in game. They would have taken the time to make the game good, in the not having awful graphics and a lamo story, and not just another console RTS flop.

To answer your second question, no, because I can work knowing I don't have to concern myself with breaking 60 million in the video game box office and therefore pandering to every simp who picked up an xbox controller at some point in their life. When I said I wouldn't include the SoF, it caused an uproar, but that didn't really bother me at all, Halo Wars sucked, that's all folks. Basically I can make the game exactly how I want, not really worrying whether or not the people actually like it. This means I can actually have pride in it as I want it to be the way I want it to be and not some big producer, all I can hope is that the people have some appreciation for things that aren't dumb, like the Spirit of Fire.

No no no silly willy, you said this:

That was just a joke response, as all you said was yes.

To which I responded: 'Yes?' As in I agreed, lot's of people on the internet have opinions, lol, your point bieng?

It was just more of a ramble really. I was just leading into the next point of fans/fanboys/girls.

Well, yeah, so if it was all a ramble that had little bearing to the topic at hand, I just said yes, as in, 'yes'?

Er, these are admittedly flaws by both sides, right? It seems that the only reason there's a debate is because I'm willing enough to SAY that they're flaws.

Of course. Hence instead of being on either side, why not be in the middle? And there is a difference in making a logical statement about the flaws, and how to possibly fix them, and then there is just saying "They're doing everything wrong" or "This is going to suck because of such and such". You, as a modder should know the problems and troubles encounter when making something, and when you do encounter one, you have to make decisions for the better of the game, even if some don't agree with it.

The middle of what though? Again, these are admittedly flaws on both sides of the 'Im willing to point out the flaws because there stupid V I'm not willing to point out the flaws because it doesn't matter enough to me' debate? What's the middle ground in pointing out flaws, and not pointing out flaws?

Also, by quoting everything you said word for word and responding to it, do I demonstrate your claim of 'ignoring everything that either you don't want to hear'? I guess your idea of 'ignoring' is 'not agreeing with.'

LOL, is there one person on this site that addresses more statements then I do? Is there a person that makes longer posts? with more quotations?

I can name a few if you like ;)

By all means, shoot.

What have I dismissed? Again, your idea of dismissal is 'not agree with.'

You can not agree with something/one, and that's ok. I disagree with a lot of people on the site. When we (well mostly others, I usually just watch) debate, I take a look at both sides, and take both points into consideration. When you debate, you just stick you to your ideals, for example, the blue vs purple fiasco.

How are you able to determine whether or not I take both sides into consideration? For example that thread you mentioned, I actually stated both sides of the debate if you care to read.

Ones level of fandom is not measured by how many flaws he's willing to reconcile, that's ones level of fanboyism.

Then how does one measure the level of fandom? By how much they'll complain?

How much their willing to complain at stupid stuff, yes.

Enjoying it or disliking it is the result of accepting everything produced and not enjoying it because it should be better respectively and not being happy when the series when it clearly makes alterations for no good reason.

To be fair, that is level of prefrence. But I do agree when monumental flaws are made, without a clear reason as to why/how (although to be fair, I would need to ask why they did it first to know the reason) is questionable to me.

Level of preference? What does that even mean? How many flaws your willing to accept to still be preferable? Isn't that what I was saying?

So if you know someone like Bungie wouldn't ever really make any monumental flaws ever, but does make some mistakes, why shouldn't we say anything? If we wan't Bungie to improve I mean. If not, we're just allowing things to change over time, for small flaws to compile and things to slowly get nonsensical and lower quality.

The former does in fact show that you're not willing to either think about it, or contest these flaws, if you don't want it to be better or don't care, I consider that something that would make you less of a fan.

I do think about the flaws, I see some all the time. Do I let it/them ruin the experience for me? Unless it is game changing/killing, it's almost not worth it to mention. If I found something that I had a problem with, I would mention it to the devs (as I've done before). I doubt it makes me any less/more of a fan than you.

Unless you have pictures of Cortana spread around your room. Then I would say you're a bigger fan than me.

The duality of fandom includes celebrating the good things while also calling out the clear bad things before they snowball. Plus, if pictures of Cortana in your room mean more then the hundreds of hours I've spent on my project, then I suppose it would, however I've spent hundreds of hours on my project.

Based on everything we know about it, and what we've seen from this trailer, I don't know what would be worth betting on knowing the fate of the franchise is at stake.


Wait, what do we know about it, other than the trailer?

and whoops deleted some of your responses, I'll respond to those as soon as I can.

We know in the trailer, they changed things for no reason, which shows a severe lack of either communication, knowledge, common sense, or any sort of reverence to those who actually care about the way things look being constant. We also know that it was incredibly goofy looking.

CivBase wrote:The first link is to the Halo Legends music... not the actual series.

I am undone.

Rasq'uire'laskar wrote:Ringleader, you honestly have zero idea what the Halo fanbase is. All you have are three-year old memories of the Halo Wars forums. You've never on HBO. You treat all my attempts to show that the Halo fanbase ISN'T entirely made up of idiots with contempt. Hell, you didn't even read all the reviews of Halo: Legends on Amazon.com: I didn't have to go far for one that was negative.

Rasq, I KNOW there are some good folks out there, especially on HBO, but for every one of them, there's 20 more kids that just don't care, that's just how it is. I know that the actual fanbase is large, and really a good one, even so, there are a lot of big spenders out there that just want to shoot up green aliens.

My point still stands, Legends received generally good reviews. What could 343 possibly get from ratings like these, make more of them?

Honestly, I can take it. Maybe. But when you Halopedia with utter contempt in one conversation, and then turn around and use it as a source, it becomes clear that you need to re-evaluate your position.

Re-evaluated, no problems, as I'm in utter contempt when people update without sourcing anything and with ridiculous info (making up stuff), as I've told you many times. When I do use it, I check for sources, and only if it's for things like looking up how large ships are, scalar quantifiable entries, and not the speed of plasma torpedoes (things not mentioned in any of the source materials.)

Ringleader wrote:
The middle of what though? Again, these are admittedly flaws on both sides of the 'Im willing to point out the flaws because there stupid V I'm not willing to point out the flaws because it doesn't matter enough to me' debate? What's the middle ground in pointing out flaws, and not pointing out flaws?

False dichotomy, Ringleader. We don't want to stop pointing out flaws. We want you to to drop the whiny tone.

Rasq'uire'laskar wrote:

Ringleader wrote:
The middle of what though? Again, these are admittedly flaws on both sides of the 'Im willing to point out the flaws because there stupid V I'm not willing to point out the flaws because it doesn't matter enough to me' debate? What's the middle ground in pointing out flaws, and not pointing out flaws?

False dichotomy, Ringleader. We don't want to stop pointing out flaws. We want you to to drop the whiny tone.

^This^.

Ringleader, nobody here thinks that Halo 4 is "okay". Doesn't mean we have to bitch about EVERY SINGLE FUCKING ASPECT of the game. You have the problem of treating everything new that has to do with Halo as the spawn of satan. Hell, even if the game is shitty, it doesn't mean every part of it is shitty. Halo Wars had some of the best damn music in the series.

You are over-analyzing and bitching about everything you see. That's what's frustrating.

Ringleader wrote:
My point still stands, Legends received generally good reviews. What could 343 possibly get from ratings like these, make more of them?

Or, if they listened to the mixed reactions at HBO, tread frickin' carefully next time.
Note that none of the sources you had were from Halo fansites. Since the problems with Legends were canonical (And, in a few cases, animation/voice acting) those sites would not have had the background to see why Legends was utter tripe.

Over on the HBO forum, which is considered by Bungie and 343i to be the mature older brother of B.net, the reaction to Halo: Legends was far more mixed.

As for the legions of people shouting down the naysayers, it ain't happening. I count a maximum of five people on HBO who are saying "Who cares about the H4 armor changes?"
One of them helped me get the Vidmaster: Annual achievement, so no hard feelings against him. XD

Ringleader wrote:Re-evaluated, no problems, as I'm in utter contempt when people update without sourcing anything and with ridiculous info (making up stuff), as I've told you many times. When I do use it, I check for sources, and only if it's for things like looking up how large ships are, scalar quantifiable entries, and not the speed of plasma torpedoes (things not mentioned in any of the source materials.)

Your default position seems to be, if it came from the Halo fandom, treat it with suspicion. Like when I was pointing out that Stephan Loftus had figures for the length of the supercarrier in Reach, and you basically just spat in my face.

I can understand that you didn't remember that Loftus is the one who did the size comparisons BLS (and presumably you) were using for ship scaling. But how about a little benefit of the doubt?

I just like to point out the possibility of not even fighting against the covies in Halo 4...

Perhaps fighting some new Sentinels?

That'd be cool. ^.^

Shieldworld, Now if weve learned one thing, theres definatly sentinels there, and if you actually take Halowars with some value, there could be flood there aswell.

Baconsen wrote:I just like to point out the possibility of not even fighting against the covies in Halo 4...

Perhaps fighting some new Sentinels?

That'd be cool. ^.^

Over on HBO, someone suggested that, with all the nifty equipment the Forerunners have lying about, Cortana might be able to create a physical body.
Even if I haven't seen it a dozen times in fanfiction (one of those stories is also named Isolation) I'm not all that fond of that plot twist. I mean, she's an AI. She's limitless. Why the hell would she take a step back.

Now if she got ahold of a Monitor casing or a Sentinel Major...

dragoon9105 wrote:Shieldworld, Now if weve learned one thing, theres definatly sentinels there, and if you actually take Halowars with some value, there could be flood there aswell.

1: I think we've had enough games with the Flood, thank you very much.
2: The life expectancy of a pre-Gravemind Flood colony in proximity to Onyx (a WORLD constructed of those sentinels) can be measured in picoseconds.

No, Rasq. The last two Halo s had no flood, so it's time to make up for it by having a game with NOTHING BUT FLOOD!!!!

I'm so pissed about this! The story ended fine at 3 and now a whole new trilogy! This is franchise milking at it's finest !

I love the flood though.
I wouldn't mind not having them in campaign,
But at least a Firefight style game type with them...

Ohh...

What about Infection, but with a flood twist?

=O

I have no problems with the flood halo wouldn't be as popular as it is now if it was just us and them, Case and point the reach campain gets boring really quick since theres not much diversity in what your fighting. (Except for the random drone attack)

dragoon9105 wrote:I have no problems with the flood halo wouldn't be as popular as it is now if it was just us and them, Case and point the reach campain gets boring really quick since theres not much diversity in what your fighting. (Except for the random drone attack)

Jackals and Grunts both have their challenges. Unless you aim for the soft spots, they just sit there and soak up a lot of damage. Elites some in three flavors: Tough, all over the place, and invulnerable. Brutes are meat shields, but you have to shoot some before you shoot the others. Drones and Skirmishers are a pain in the-

Flood... they're either bullet sponges, or those annoying critters you have to snipe before continuing. I think Reach was better without them.

You know, given how lackluster the trailer was, I wish they'd just released this.

just saying, the frigate stayed on fire for a fucking long time... especially in space with no oxygen


so... this is taking place a couple hours after Halo 3? otherwise that ship should be cold and dead

KrAzY wrote:just saying, the frigate stayed on fire for a fucking long time... especially in space with no oxygen


so... this is taking place a couple hours after Halo 3? otherwise that ship should be cold and dead

1. A 343 rep stated in a demo for IGN that H4 takes place "quite some time" after H3. 2. Either 343 has no understanding of space or the ship was being attacked by something. I'm intending on believing the latter because of the blasting of fire and debris through the ship as Chief flew out.

Well, they showed the planet at the end of Halo 3 too, so I assume the discovery had only occurred shortly afterward, and not 5,000 years after the Human-Covenant War.

Then again, the Ark was way way way far away from the Galactic core, wasn't it like hundreds of thousands of light years away? (diameter of the Milky Way ~ 50,000 light years), so if the ship actually free floated all the way back to inside the outer limits of the Galaxy, it would take hundreds of thousands if not millions of years just to get there, unless this Forerunner planet is floating nearby Ark? (the only source of light in thousands of light years), maybe it's that moon mine structure in the center of the Ark. If that were the case I'm sure Cortana would have known about any stellar bodies close bye as the closest ones in the actual Galaxy were thousands of light years away at the closest, in that case Halo misfiring probably would have done a 'number' on it too. Did they come across the planet traveling across the virtual emptiness of space around the Ark? That seems even less likely then the Elites all transmogrifiering their armor over the course of a few hours. Even if the Forerunners built an entire Star neighborhood this far out of the milky way, it would still take the frigate section hundreds of years to drift there at sublight speeds. So was the ship under attack or was it still burning from being severed in half over the Ark? If it were under attack by Forerunner ships, then it wouldn't have just, stopped being attacked and drift into one of their planets right? Otherwise, why the attack in the first place? If it's still burning (it wasn't even burning at the end of H3, it was only red hot at the separation points), wouldn't it run out of oxygen to burn?

Oh, 343 did the story? Oh.

Actually, I will say this, and I do ask you to take note of it. I LIKE the idea of the story happening long after the events of Halo 3. So maybe we can see what happens afterward, if not that then maybe something tied into the Forerunners which is also an interesting possibility (so long as they don't ruin the mystery behind them, or poop up the canon). So there, I said I liked something that 343 is possibly doing, which of course will be quite obscured when Chief wakes up from Cryosleep wearing different armor with no crotch guard.

Ringleader wrote:\y behind them, or poop up the canon). So there, I said I liked something that 343 is possibly doing, which of course will be quite obscured when Chief wakes up from Cryosleep wearing different armor with no crotch guard.

Well Cortana needed something to do with her time ;)

Mkay.
Personally, I think that H4 is going to take place a few years after the end of Halo 3. In case you guys haven't noticed, Halo has been playing hard and fast with orbital mechanics and ship speed since the Fall of Reach. Therefore, the Chief's half of the Dawn could be far away from the Ark... or pretty close.

In addition, there was a 'Maginot Sphere' mentioned in the Terminals. I always imagine that this would be a shell of defenses around the Ark. Doubt it would stretch all the way to the edge of the Milky Way. A radius of several hundred AU around the Ark is more likely.
So, in this time, maybe the Chief and Cortana drifted to one of the constructs that wasn't pounded into dust during the battle. Not a Shield World, but a Stronghold World. Something meant to sit in one place and blast anything that gets near. Or maybe some sort of mobile refit station, commandeered by 294 Contemplative Paragon, the Moderator of Arkology 03.

As for coming across it 'randomly', that is hardly the case. Obviously, the Forward Unto Dawn passed within a few light-seconds of this still-active construct, and was captured and pulled in by some sort of tractor beam (Mkay, not a tractor beam but a monopolar gravity field. Happy now?).
The tidal forces stressed the Dawn's already-broken superstructure to the point where everything fell apart. The basic repairs that the Chief had made were undone, the atmosphere conservation units were breached, releasing stored atmosphere into the void. Cortana's attempt to stabilize the ship with the remaining docking thrusters failed, again causing multiple system failures and internal explosions.