Don't Ask, Don't Tell, Women in the military

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Post by Nocbl2 on Wed Aug 04, 2010 8:45 pm

Came from the "Classified information breach" thread.

I believe gays and women should be allowed in the military, in all roles, but have their own special units. I.E. instead of having a few guys and one girl and a gay dude, you have all the woman and gay men in one group. Lesbians would be with the males.

This is all to prevent fraternization among personnel so people are more focused on doing their job.


Last edited by Nocbl2 on Wed Aug 04, 2010 10:13 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Gold Spartan on Wed Aug 04, 2010 8:48 pm

This arguement was already happening.....This thread is entirely pointless.
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Post by BBJynne on Wed Aug 04, 2010 8:50 pm

go go go isn't a very good way to start a discussion.

you should offer some views that people can at least use as a launching point for their own to compare to

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Post by Nocbl2 on Wed Aug 04, 2010 8:50 pm

Gold Spartan wrote:This arguement was already happening.....This thread is entirely pointless.
Well, this is so it goes in the right section, and the info breach can get back on topic.
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Post by Gold Spartan on Wed Aug 04, 2010 8:56 pm

Nocbl2 wrote:
Gold Spartan wrote:This arguement was already happening.....This thread is entirely pointless.
Well, this is so it goes in the right section, and the info breach can get back on topic.
......everyone calling it BS is back on topic?
Anyways, think of a better way to start a debate thread. Making other people start it for you is just plain lazy.
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Post by Rotaretilbo on Wed Aug 04, 2010 11:50 pm

You do realize that putting gay men all in the same unit would create even more distraction than having a few gays interspersed within larger units, right?

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Post by Gauz on Thu Aug 05, 2010 12:06 am

That's stupid, I dont see why you would have to seperate gay men, or females. Sure there is a chance of them making stupid mistakes like Recon said, but for a larger military force, I think it's worth it.
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Post by Ukurse on Thu Aug 05, 2010 3:39 am

Wait, so you are expecting men to be more focused on their job when they are amongst lesbians?
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Post by Toaster on Thu Aug 05, 2010 4:17 pm

Gauz wrote:That's stupid, I dont see why you would have to seperate gay men, or females. Sure there is a chance of them making stupid mistakes like Recon said, but for a larger military force, I think it's worth it.

To be honest, when I made those arguments, I was speaking entirely from the perspective of an actual military officer. My reasons, as I said before, are entirely based on personal ethics, and I won't attempt to cover that up by presenting faulty arguments.

I don't like the idea of the United States sending young women out onto the battlefield. I think actual combat should be reserved for men. That's just how I think it should be.
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Post by Nocbl2 on Thu Aug 05, 2010 5:29 pm

ReconToaster wrote:
Gauz wrote:That's stupid, I dont see why you would have to seperate gay men, or females. Sure there is a chance of them making stupid mistakes like Recon said, but for a larger military force, I think it's worth it.

To be honest, when I made those arguments, I was speaking entirely from the perspective of an actual military officer. My reasons, as I said before, are entirely based on personal ethics, and I won't attempt to cover that up by presenting faulty arguments.

I don't like the idea of the United States sending young women out onto the battlefield. I think actual combat should be reserved for men. That's just how I think it should be.
Well, if women are just as willing to risk their necks for their country, why not let them?
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Post by Onyxknight on Thu Aug 05, 2010 5:37 pm

Nocbl2 wrote:
ReconToaster wrote:
Gauz wrote:That's stupid, I dont see why you would have to seperate gay men, or females. Sure there is a chance of them making stupid mistakes like Recon said, but for a larger military force, I think it's worth it.

To be honest, when I made those arguments, I was speaking entirely from the perspective of an actual military officer. My reasons, as I said before, are entirely based on personal ethics, and I won't attempt to cover that up by presenting faulty arguments.

I don't like the idea of the United States sending young women out onto the battlefield. I think actual combat should be reserved for men. That's just how I think it should be.
Well, if women are just as willing to risk their necks for their country, why not let them?
because without women we have no more men to send at our enemies
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Post by Nocbl2 on Thu Aug 05, 2010 6:24 pm

Onyxknight wrote:
Nocbl2 wrote:
ReconToaster wrote:
Gauz wrote:That's stupid, I dont see why you would have to seperate gay men, or females. Sure there is a chance of them making stupid mistakes like Recon said, but for a larger military force, I think it's worth it.

To be honest, when I made those arguments, I was speaking entirely from the perspective of an actual military officer. My reasons, as I said before, are entirely based on personal ethics, and I won't attempt to cover that up by presenting faulty arguments.

I don't like the idea of the United States sending young women out onto the battlefield. I think actual combat should be reserved for men. That's just how I think it should be.
Well, if women are just as willing to risk their necks for their country, why not let them?
because without women we have no more men to send at our enemies
... Well, maybe we have a limit on how many people can join? Besides, most people don't want to risk their life, so...
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Post by Angatar on Thu Aug 05, 2010 6:38 pm

Onyxknight wrote:
Nocbl2 wrote:
ReconToaster wrote:
Gauz wrote:That's stupid, I dont see why you would have to seperate gay men, or females. Sure there is a chance of them making stupid mistakes like Recon said, but for a larger military force, I think it's worth it.

To be honest, when I made those arguments, I was speaking entirely from the perspective of an actual military officer. My reasons, as I said before, are entirely based on personal ethics, and I won't attempt to cover that up by presenting faulty arguments.

I don't like the idea of the United States sending young women out onto the battlefield. I think actual combat should be reserved for men. That's just how I think it should be.
Well, if women are just as willing to risk their necks for their country, why not let them?
because without women we have no more men to send at our enemies
Not every single man is sent to war, why would it be different for women?

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Post by Onyxknight on Thu Aug 05, 2010 8:19 pm

Nocbl2 wrote:
Onyxknight wrote:
Nocbl2 wrote:
ReconToaster wrote:
Gauz wrote:That's stupid, I dont see why you would have to seperate gay men, or females. Sure there is a chance of them making stupid mistakes like Recon said, but for a larger military force, I think it's worth it.

To be honest, when I made those arguments, I was speaking entirely from the perspective of an actual military officer. My reasons, as I said before, are entirely based on personal ethics, and I won't attempt to cover that up by presenting faulty arguments.

I don't like the idea of the United States sending young women out onto the battlefield. I think actual combat should be reserved for men. That's just how I think it should be.
Well, if women are just as willing to risk their necks for their country, why not let them?
because without women we have no more men to send at our enemies
... Well, maybe we have a limit on how many people can join? Besides, most people don't want to risk their life, so...
that is true but i still say men are made for the tough jobs so i think women should stay as support roles
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Post by Nocbl2 on Thu Aug 05, 2010 9:46 pm

Onyxknight wrote:
Nocbl2 wrote:
Onyxknight wrote:
Nocbl2 wrote:
ReconToaster wrote:
Gauz wrote:That's stupid, I dont see why you would have to seperate gay men, or females. Sure there is a chance of them making stupid mistakes like Recon said, but for a larger military force, I think it's worth it.

To be honest, when I made those arguments, I was speaking entirely from the perspective of an actual military officer. My reasons, as I said before, are entirely based on personal ethics, and I won't attempt to cover that up by presenting faulty arguments.

I don't like the idea of the United States sending young women out onto the battlefield. I think actual combat should be reserved for men. That's just how I think it should be.
Well, if women are just as willing to risk their necks for their country, why not let them?
because without women we have no more men to send at our enemies
... Well, maybe we have a limit on how many people can join? Besides, most people don't want to risk their life, so...
that is true but i still say men are made for the tough jobs so i think women should stay as support roles
They may be stronger, but if someone can actually pass training, I think they should be allowed to serve in a combat role.
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Post by Gauz on Fri Aug 06, 2010 2:14 am

Exactly. If women are physically capable, then why not? Women on average may not be as powerful as males, but they wont break like a twig :/
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Post by Kasrkin Seath on Fri Aug 06, 2010 2:40 pm

Im sure they have their reasons behind it that are not simply based on tradition

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Post by Nocbl2 on Fri Aug 06, 2010 4:52 pm

kasrkin seath wrote:Im sure they have their reasons behind it that are not simply based on tradition
Like being sexist assholes?
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Post by Kasrkin Seath on Fri Aug 06, 2010 8:21 pm

Nocbl2 wrote:
kasrkin seath wrote:Im sure they have their reasons behind it that are not simply based on tradition
Like being sexist assholes?
No, they are not used in combat roles for several reasons.
In general
- On average, not as physically capable as males
- Having one sex only would prevent MOST romantic relationships, which are not good
- A wounded or downed female will sometimes cause a break in discipline with the male soldiers. Definitely not good.

There would be less issues if they were kept seperate in their own units, true, but that brings up problems as well.

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Post by Nocbl2 on Fri Aug 06, 2010 8:46 pm

kasrkin seath wrote:
Nocbl2 wrote:
kasrkin seath wrote:Im sure they have their reasons behind it that are not simply based on tradition
Like being sexist assholes?
No, they are not used in combat roles for several reasons.
In general
- On average, not as physically capable as males
- Having one sex only would prevent MOST romantic relationships, which are not good
- A wounded or downed female will sometimes cause a break in discipline with the male soldiers. Definitely not good.

There would be less issues if they were kept seperate in their own units, true, but that brings up problems as well.
Break in discipline? If it was your best friend who got shot, wouldn't most people try and save him? Same goes for women. Plus, if you get shot by an automatic weapon, it's more than likely you'll have multiple bullet wounds all over the body, so the TV drama scene with the 'big choice' probably wouldn't happen considering they're already dead.
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Post by Kasrkin Seath on Fri Aug 06, 2010 9:09 pm

Nocbl2 wrote:
kasrkin seath wrote:
Nocbl2 wrote:
kasrkin seath wrote:Im sure they have their reasons behind it that are not simply based on tradition
Like being sexist assholes?
No, they are not used in combat roles for several reasons.
In general
- On average, not as physically capable as males
- Having one sex only would prevent MOST romantic relationships, which are not good
- A wounded or downed female will sometimes cause a break in discipline with the male soldiers. Definitely not good.

There would be less issues if they were kept seperate in their own units, true, but that brings up problems as well.
Break in discipline? If it was your best friend who got shot, wouldn't most people try and save him? Same goes for women. Plus, if you get shot by an automatic weapon, it's more than likely you'll have multiple bullet wounds all over the body, so the TV drama scene with the 'big choice' probably wouldn't happen considering they're already dead.

The break in discipline has been OBSERVED in males when a female has been wounded or killed. It is believed to be instinctual, rather than based just on a relationship.
This is not theory, it has been seen in the battlefield.

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[00:17:37] @ KrAzY : and that person is seath
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Post by Nocbl2 on Fri Aug 06, 2010 9:14 pm

kasrkin seath wrote:
Nocbl2 wrote:
kasrkin seath wrote:
Nocbl2 wrote:
kasrkin seath wrote:Im sure they have their reasons behind it that are not simply based on tradition
Like being sexist assholes?
No, they are not used in combat roles for several reasons.
In general
- On average, not as physically capable as males
- Having one sex only would prevent MOST romantic relationships, which are not good
- A wounded or downed female will sometimes cause a break in discipline with the male soldiers. Definitely not good.

There would be less issues if they were kept seperate in their own units, true, but that brings up problems as well.
Break in discipline? If it was your best friend who got shot, wouldn't most people try and save him? Same goes for women. Plus, if you get shot by an automatic weapon, it's more than likely you'll have multiple bullet wounds all over the body, so the TV drama scene with the 'big choice' probably wouldn't happen considering they're already dead.

The break in discipline has been OBSERVED in males when a female has been wounded or killed. It is believed to be instinctual, rather than based just on a relationship.
This is not theory, it has been seen in the battlefield.
Source?
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Post by Kasrkin Seath on Fri Aug 06, 2010 9:18 pm

Nocbl2 wrote:
kasrkin seath wrote:
Nocbl2 wrote:
kasrkin seath wrote:
Nocbl2 wrote:
kasrkin seath wrote:Im sure they have their reasons behind it that are not simply based on tradition
Like being sexist assholes?
No, they are not used in combat roles for several reasons.
In general
- On average, not as physically capable as males
- Having one sex only would prevent MOST romantic relationships, which are not good
- A wounded or downed female will sometimes cause a break in discipline with the male soldiers. Definitely not good.

There would be less issues if they were kept seperate in their own units, true, but that brings up problems as well.
Break in discipline? If it was your best friend who got shot, wouldn't most people try and save him? Same goes for women. Plus, if you get shot by an automatic weapon, it's more than likely you'll have multiple bullet wounds all over the body, so the TV drama scene with the 'big choice' probably wouldn't happen considering they're already dead.

The break in discipline has been OBSERVED in males when a female has been wounded or killed. It is believed to be instinctual, rather than based just on a relationship.
This is not theory, it has been seen in the battlefield.
Source?

On Killing: The Psychological Cost of Learning to Kill in War and Society
It's a book so I can't really link to it.

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Post by Toaster on Fri Aug 06, 2010 9:24 pm

I just know that if I were a soldier, I'd have a lot of trouble shooting a female enemy combatant. It just wouldn't sit well with me. On the other hand, I'd be perfectly comfortable with killing another man.
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Post by Kasrkin Seath on Fri Aug 06, 2010 9:26 pm


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Don't Ask, Don't Tell, Women in the military Kasrki10
[00:17:22] @ KrAzY : new law.
[00:17:28] @ KrAzY : the law can now be a person.
[00:17:28] @ XNate02 : The Law, can only be The Law.
[00:17:32] @ Gauz : I'd kick everyone....
[00:17:37] @ KrAzY : and that person is seath
[00:17:39] @ kasrkin seath : YES
------------------------------------------
[02:22:43] @ KrAzY : the reason we all come to TCF is because Seath is too Lord Pheonix damn sexy to stop.
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