GODDAMN IT EA!! NOT ANOTHER THING!!!

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Post by KristallNacht on Wed May 12, 2010 7:48 pm

i actually prefer the digital copies of games, since it means i'll have it forever. I don't need to keep track of discs or do the old school act of switching discs, because its all virtual.
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Post by dragoon9105 on Thu May 13, 2010 8:22 pm

EA feels they need to do this obviously becuase they release the same exact game year after year with minor tweeks. my friends still played NHL07 for a while. and usually whenever i'm going to buy a sports game i go to a retailer and buy a used year old copy.

its like going to a store, and seeing two T-shirts made of the exact samematerial. One is 10$ and the other is 20$. they look exactly the same and the same company made them. now who here would choose the 20$ option?

If EA didn't release the same exact Product every year, after year, after year, then they wouldn't be losing money in the used game market.

its like if apple invented a new phone. then roughly a month later they take the surplus, paint it a diffrent color and sold it with a slightly diffrent name, usually involving a number at the end of it at full price.

EA wont be able to stop the secondhand market. people will just get into the habit of creating a new account that goes with the card. or people will stop buying the game without the card, or people will stop buying EA games altogether and profit will fall becuase less people will want to buy EA games and then say 2k sports games will go up EA may notice the fall in sales.

not to mention what EA is doing is technically illegal, by driving what could be competing companies out of busniness they are violating economic law.
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Post by PiEdude on Thu May 13, 2010 8:52 pm

KristallNacht wrote:i actually prefer the digital copies of games, since it means i'll have it forever. I don't need to keep track of discs or do the old school act of switching discs, because its all virtual.

What if your hard drive crashes, or your computer is ruined by lightening (happened to me once)?
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Post by Gold Spartan on Thu May 13, 2010 9:33 pm

PiEdude wrote:
KristallNacht wrote:i actually prefer the digital copies of games, since it means i'll have it forever. I don't need to keep track of discs or do the old school act of switching discs, because its all virtual.

What if your hard drive crashes, or your computer is ruined by lightening (happened to me once)?
the beauty of steam is that if you buy it off of steam, it stays in your profile. Sure, you have to reinstall it again, but how is that any different than a hard copy? Besides, you can't ruin a digital copy like you can a hard copy.
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Post by Rotaretilbo on Thu May 13, 2010 9:37 pm

That's the beauty of Steam. The copies are saved to an online profile. If your computer were to suddenly explode, you could buy a new one and download Steam and there would be all of your Steam games.

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Post by Gold Spartan on Thu May 13, 2010 9:40 pm

Rotaretilbo wrote:That's the beauty of Steam. The copies are saved to an online profile. If your computer were to suddenly explode, you could buy a new one and download Steam and there would be all of your Steam games.
thank you for saying exactly what I said with a different wording.
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Post by Rotaretilbo on Fri May 14, 2010 1:09 am

When I clicked Post Reply, your post wasn't there. :S

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Post by Ukurse on Fri May 14, 2010 2:14 am

kasrkin seath wrote:I would rather have hard copies of my games
I don't really mind having hard copies or not.
I just prefer having a legitimate version, on disk or not. Just as a preference.
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Post by dragoon9105 on Fri May 14, 2010 12:53 pm

i hate hard CD keys, i always lose them and i am forced to steal them from my friends.
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Post by KristallNacht on Fri May 14, 2010 2:17 pm

PiEdude wrote:
KristallNacht wrote:i actually prefer the digital copies of games, since it means i'll have it forever. I don't need to keep track of discs or do the old school act of switching discs, because its all virtual.

What if your hard drive crashes, or your computer is ruined by lightening (happened to me once)?

um, both XBL and Steam store your purchases on their multi backed up servers so your purchase is forever.
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Post by KristallNacht on Fri May 14, 2010 2:17 pm

dragoon9105 wrote:
its like if apple invented a new phone. then roughly a month later they take the surplus, paint it a diffrent color and sold it with a slightly diffrent name, usually involving a number at the end of it at full price.

um, I'm pretty sure that's already what they do....
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Post by Divine Virus on Fri May 14, 2010 2:42 pm

KristallNacht wrote:
dragoon9105 wrote:
its like if apple invented a new phone. then roughly a month later they take the surplus, paint it a diffrent color and sold it with a slightly diffrent name, usually involving a number at the end of it at full price.
um, I'm pretty sure that's already what they do....
iPad.
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Post by KristallNacht on Fri May 14, 2010 3:48 pm

its just a big itouch.

hell it doesn't even have all the features of 2005s tablet pcs
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Post by TNine on Fri May 14, 2010 5:35 pm

Rotaretilbo wrote:
TNine wrote:You are buying the game without EA recieving any kind of profit.

Incorrect. EA has already profited from the game I am purchasing. I am buying a game that would otherwise be thrown away. And if this new policy spreads, that's what's going to happen to unwanted games: they'll be thrown away. EA was paid for one copy of the game, and that's exactly what they gave. It shouldn't matter who owns said copy, because at the end of the day, the number of copies on the market (piracy aside) do not exceed the number of copies EA received payment for.
And that changes the fact how? You are STILL buying the game, and EA is STILL not getting any money.

Rotaretilbo wrote:
TNine wrote:Not the point, at all. I'm saying gamestop will still be there, cause games still need to be sold.

Game retailers make jack shit right now. The only reason they're still alive is because they can buy used games for say $5 and then resell them for $35, making a $30 profit rather than the $5 profit they make on new games. The industry will adapt, yes. It will adapt so that game retailers go out of business and third party developers cease to be. The issue here is that you assume that adapt means "get better."
I'll get back to this one later, kinda pressed for time.

On the other hand, why should EA care?

Rotaretilbo wrote:
TNine wrote:But it is so painfully easy and much cheaper, the only real reason Steam isn't used is:
1.) People want hard copies, which, from what i can tell, is only a few people.
2.) Steam doesn't offer that many products.
3.) Steam is PC's only

And those are three BIG reasons. Frankly, the only two games I've bought over Steam are L4D and L4D2, and I regret not having hard copies. Also, people have doubts about putting their credit card information on the Internet. Not to mention that, without a credit card, no Steam purchases for you. And for some reason, there are quite a lot of people who loathe Steam.
Reasons 2 and 3 won't be there forever. And number 1 will soon be outdated, wired controller style. (I don't know about you, but i used to think they were so unnecessary.

Rotaretilbo wrote:
TNine wrote:I can't imagine Gamestop can compete with TF2 for $2.49 a pop.

Neither can I. Thankfully, TF2 is $19.99 a pop, which is a price retailers can compete with. In fact, I'm pretty sure that GameStop's price for TF2 matches Steam's price.
It was selling for $2.49 in October, getting Valve some profit and renewing the TF2 population. The thing is, Valve can sell TF2 for $.01 and receive $.01 proft (at a later date, when the cost of production has already payed off).

Rotaretilbo wrote:
TNine wrote:Also, i don't know if you can consider steam a retailer, as it is not selling physical products. But i will not go down that path.

I consider it a retailer because it is selling a product rather than a service. Whether this product can be physically held in my hand holds no relevance to whether or not it qualifies as a product.
I assosiate "retailer" with actual objects, and more notably actual stores. But it's all scemantics, right?

Rotaretilbo wrote:
TNine wrote:1.) I can't see Valve falling, merely greedifying. They have a great lineup of awesome games and a large fanbase.

And when the entire industry is controlled entirely by publishers, Valve will eventually be given an offer they can't refuse, bought by a publisher, and the rest is history.
Valve is a publisher.

Rotaretilbo wrote:
TNine wrote:2.) The beauty with the online publishing is every game will profit (at least for the publishers). There is no reason to not support a game.

Every game already profits. EA is just ensuring that they don't have to support games for long by cutting out resale options. Furthermore, even with new games, the publishers already take the largest cut. They don't need extra profits. The fuckers are already the richest, greediest sons of bitches in the industry. If anything, we should be trying to help developers, but sadly, since most of the developers are now owned by publishers, publishers get to suck them dry anyway. I mean, fuck, the publishers profit even when the games don't sell, because the retailers effectively have to buy them at $45 a pop.
Every game does not profit. Publishers are in charge of the production of games, and there is a rule of production: the more you make, the less it costs (per unit). So if they only make a few thousand games, and it still fails expectations, the publisher and the developer both lose out.

Rotaretilbo wrote:So imagine that a retailer buys 100 copies of 10 games. The various publishers (and developers, if they aren't owned by a publisher) of these games walk away with a total of $45,000. Now imagine two are best sellers, three are mediocre, and five are obscure. The best sellers sell out, the mediocre games sell fifty copies, and the obscure games sell twenty-five copies. The retailer just made $875. Now, the retailer buys some games back from people and resells them. Let's say they buy half of the best sellers a few months later at $5 each. They now have made $625. But now, imagine that half of these used games are resold at $35. They're total profit shoots up to $1,500. Now they can afford to pay their employees and maybe their utility bills.
And this wasn't already happening. EA is simply speeding up the process, many small third party games are already sold on PSN, LIVE, and Steam. Notably, the ones on PSN and LIVE are much smaller, but the point stands.

Rotaretilbo wrote:See the problem? The publishers already take huge profits from these games. To demand that they make more profit every time the game is resold is absolute bullshit, and in my opinion, is bordering illegal.
It's better than legal! It's using the law to keep justice away!

On a more serious and actual point, i simply think that GameStop and the such were already going out of buisness, the gaming industry is less reliant on hard copies and secondhand games are sucking money out of the industry by the thousands. Shutting it down would only be next to shutting down piracy in maximizing profit.

Also, why do you act like the Publishers are big baddies? They are trying to make a buck, perhaps so they could offer a few more jobs, reducing the unemployment. It's not like the publishers are a bunch of big meanies, merely companies trying to pay out. Think of how low of a percentage of these profits are actually going to the people who make these decisions? Yes, a few companies need to steer clear so that the hardcores have a haven for good games, but these publishers are very big and very good at what they do.

For now, gtg.
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Post by Rotaretilbo on Fri May 14, 2010 6:07 pm

TNine wrote:And that changes the fact how? You are STILL buying the game, and EA is STILL not getting any money.

But I am NOT buying the game from EA. EA sold the game, and in doing so, released all legal ownership of that game. EA has not right to demand a cut from a copy of a game that they have no legal ownership of.

Rotaretilbo wrote:I'll get back to this one later, kinda pressed for time.

On the other hand, why should EA care?

EA should care about their customers, and if this is going to have a negative impact on the quality of games in the long run, it will have a negative impact on their customers. However, EA doesn't give two shits about their customers, as long as they're making money.

Rotaretilbo wrote:Reasons 2 and 3 won't be there forever. And number 1 will soon be outdated, wired controller style. (I don't know about you, but i used to think they were so unnecessary.

Steam isn't coming to console any time soon, and Steam isn't going to start carrying every game when it is probably cheaper for small developers to sell to retailers instead. So Steam won't be in a position to put retailers out of business until retailers are already out of business.

TNine wrote:It was selling for $2.49 in October, getting Valve some profit and renewing the TF2 population. The thing is, Valve can sell TF2 for $.01 and receive $.01 proft (at a later date, when the cost of production has already payed off).

That's not entirely true. For each copy created, someone had to put in work somewhere to create it, and that person has to get paid for the time spent creating the code that makes that copy unique before it is sent to a user. Valve, like many retailers, understands that if they sell at a loss, they may also inspire people to buy later when they are selling for a profit. Valve certainly isn't the only company that has special sales.

TNine wrote:I assosiate "retailer" with actual objects, and more notably actual stores. But it's all scemantics, right?

Point stands.

TNine wrote:Valve is a publisher.

Valve is an independent developer that can usually afford to publish their own work. They actually have a deal with EA to help publish their work. Further, they do not publish anyone else's works. So no, they are most certainly not a publisher.

TNine wrote:Every game does not profit. Publishers are in charge of the production of games, and there is a rule of production: the more you make, the less it costs (per unit). So if they only make a few thousand games, and it still fails expectations, the publisher and the developer both lose out.

Not entirely true. The publisher sells to retailers. If the game fails, the retailers are hit hardest. There is no game that is not a profit for the publisher. There is just possible profit that was not made, because there wasn't a demand for more games. In this case, the publisher loses very little, the developer loses quite a lot (but does anyway), and the retailer gets fucked.

TNine wrote:And this wasn't already happening. EA is simply speeding up the process, many small third party games are already sold on PSN, LIVE, and Steam. Notably, the ones on PSN and LIVE are much smaller, but the point stands.

But EA isn't speeding up the process, because it cannot control which companies can afford to use which retailers. It is simply limiting the options of small companies by cutting out a huge majority of the mediums by which games can be sold. In doing so, many small companies will be put out of business or go Indy (and I should note that almost all of the big publishers are trying their hardest to stamp out Indy game developers).

TNine wrote:It's better than legal! It's using the law to keep justice away!

What justice? EA is trying to put everyone out of business to make a quick buck. What kind of fucking justice is that!?

TNine wrote:On a more serious and actual point, i simply think that GameStop and the such were already going out of buisness, the gaming industry is less reliant on hard copies and secondhand games are sucking money out of the industry by the thousands. Shutting it down would only be next to shutting down piracy in maximizing profit.

You mean third to shutting down piracy. The biggest thing you can do to maximize profit is establish a monopoly. Oh, that's right, that's illegal. I forgot that some things that maximize profit aren't necessarily legal.[/sarcasm]

TNine wrote:Also, why do you act like the Publishers are big baddies? They are trying to make a buck, perhaps so they could offer a few more jobs, reducing the unemployment. It's not like the publishers are a bunch of big meanies, merely companies trying to pay out. Think of how low of a percentage of these profits are actually going to the people who make these decisions? Yes, a few companies need to steer clear so that the hardcores have a haven for good games, but these publishers are very big and very good at what they do.

Probably because they are the big baddies? Publishers don't give a fuck about employment. They want to put as much money into as few hands as possible. We have seen it time and time again where a publisher buys a developer, fucks the developer over, fires off the entire staff of the developer, and then hires on retards to recycle code to keep the ex-developer's franchise going to make a quick buck. Publishers are the embodiment of pure evil, and probably the biggest thing right now that makes me doubt that I'll ever actually enter the industry, unless I can get a job at Valve.

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Post by Kasrkin Seath on Fri May 14, 2010 8:04 pm

Hard copy vs. Digital

Regardless, you can pretty much put a digital copy onto a disc, or you can turn a physical copy into a digital copy just by taking the files and placing them somewhere on your comp or another.

I personally do not trust putting credit information out on the net. And I dont really count on the internet working all the time either. Do you guys know how the thing works? its a damn miracle it works at all.

Personally, I find using hard copy's easier than digital ones.


On another note, the game industry isn't looking so well atm

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Post by BBJynne on Fri May 14, 2010 8:52 pm

There's enough demand for games that the industry should survive in some form or another.

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Post by TNine on Mon May 17, 2010 2:34 pm

Rotaretilbo wrote:
TNine wrote:And that changes the fact how? You are STILL buying the game, and EA is STILL not getting any money.

But I am NOT buying the game from EA. EA sold the game, and in doing so, released all legal ownership of that game. EA has not right to demand a cut from a copy of a game that they have no legal ownership of.
YOU ARE STILL BUYING A GAME THEY MADE WITHOUT THEM GETTING ANY MONEY. I LITERALLY CANNOT MAKE THIS ANY CLEARER.

Rotaretilbo wrote:
TNine wrote:I'll get back to this one later, kinda pressed for time.

On the other hand, why should EA care?

EA should care about their customers, and if this is going to have a negative impact on the quality of games in the long run, it will have a negative impact on their customers. However, EA doesn't give two shits about their customers, as long as they're making money.
The people buying the games secondhand are not their customers, neither are those who like third party developers. It will not have a negative impact on EA games.

Rotaretilbo wrote:
TNine wrote:Reasons 2 and 3 won't be there forever. And number 1 will soon be outdated, wired controller style. (I don't know about you, but i used to think they were so unnecessary.

Steam isn't coming to console any time soon, and Steam isn't going to start carrying every game when it is probably cheaper for small developers to sell to retailers instead. So Steam won't be in a position to put retailers out of business until retailers are already out of business.
Steam is, from what i know, a fairly new marketing scheme that is already wildly successful. It will grow exponentially in the next few years.

Rotaretilbo wrote:
TNine wrote:It was selling for $2.49 in October, getting Valve some profit and renewing the TF2 population. The thing is, Valve can sell TF2 for $.01 and receive $.01 proft (at a later date, when the cost of production has already payed off).

That's not entirely true. For each copy created, someone had to put in work somewhere to create it, and that person has to get paid for the time spent creating the code that makes that copy unique before it is sent to a user. Valve, like many retailers, understands that if they sell at a loss, they may also inspire people to buy later when they are selling for a profit. Valve certainly isn't the only company that has special sales.
They weren't selling at a loss though. The beauty of online selling is that the actual distribution of a game is totally cost free. If gamestop buys for $5 and sells for $10, they are receiving $5 of profit, while when Steam sells for $7 dollars, they are selling the game cheaper and getting a larger profit.

Rotaretilbo wrote:
TNine wrote:Valve is a publisher.

Valve is an independent developer that can usually afford to publish their own work. They actually have a deal with EA to help publish their work. Further, they do not publish anyone else's works. So no, they are most certainly not a publisher.
I was under the impression that Steam carried several titles that aren't sold by Valve. Supreme Commander comes to mind, but feel free to correct me if i'm wrong.

Rotaretilbo wrote:
TNine wrote:Every game does not profit. Publishers are in charge of the production of games, and there is a rule of production: the more you make, the less it costs (per unit). So if they only make a few thousand games, and it still fails expectations, the publisher and the developer both lose out.

Not entirely true. The publisher sells to retailers. If the game fails, the retailers are hit hardest. There is no game that is not a profit for the publisher. There is just possible profit that was not made, because there wasn't a demand for more games. In this case, the publisher loses very little, the developer loses quite a lot (but does anyway), and the retailer gets fucked.
That is, of course, if the retailers buy all the copies. If the game isn't reviewed well, retailers won't buy. And doesn't that just show how flawed and in need of change and removal retailers are?

Rotaretilbo wrote:
TNine wrote:And this wasn't already happening. EA is simply speeding up the process, many small third party games are already sold on PSN, LIVE, and Steam. Notably, the ones on PSN and LIVE are much smaller, but the point stands.

But EA isn't speeding up the process, because it cannot control which companies can afford to use which retailers. It is simply limiting the options of small companies by cutting out a huge majority of the mediums by which games can be sold. In doing so, many small companies will be put out of business or go Indy (and I should note that almost all of the big publishers are trying their hardest to stamp out Indy game developers).
As you pointed out earlier, retailers are on their last legs, and are very open to losing tons of money. According to that logic, they need to go.

Rotaretilbo wrote:
TNine wrote:It's better than legal! It's using the law to keep justice away!

What justice? EA is trying to put everyone out of business to make a quick buck. What kind of fucking justice is that!?
Read that quote again. Slowly.

Feeling like an idiot yet?

Rotaretilbo wrote:
TNine wrote:On a more serious and actual point, i simply think that GameStop and the such were already going out of buisness, the gaming industry is less reliant on hard copies and secondhand games are sucking money out of the industry by the thousands. Shutting it down would only be next to shutting down piracy in maximizing profit.

You mean third to shutting down piracy. The biggest thing you can do to maximize profit is establish a monopoly. Oh, that's right, that's illegal. I forgot that some things that maximize profit aren't necessarily legal.[/sarcasm]
This one is, though. Actually, there are hundreds of ways to maximize profit that are illegal, but i was referring to the legal ones.

Rotaretilbo wrote:
TNine wrote:Also, why do you act like the Publishers are big baddies? They are trying to make a buck, perhaps so they could offer a few more jobs, reducing the unemployment. It's not like the publishers are a bunch of big meanies, merely companies trying to pay out. Think of how low of a percentage of these profits are actually going to the people who make these decisions? Yes, a few companies need to steer clear so that the hardcores have a haven for good games, but these publishers are very big and very good at what they do.

Probably because they are the big baddies? Publishers don't give a fuck about employment. They want to put as much money into as few hands as possible. We have seen it time and time again where a publisher buys a developer, fucks the developer over, fires off the entire staff of the developer, and then hires on retards to recycle code to keep the ex-developer's franchise going to make a quick buck. Publishers are the embodiment of pure evil, and probably the biggest thing right now that makes me doubt that I'll ever actually enter the industry, unless I can get a job at Valve.

Are you fucking five? This is big buisness, there are no morals, not at EA, not at Activision, not at Valve, not at Bungie. They are all simply using different routes to profit. EA's strategy is obvious, get a few iconic titles and hammer a new one out every year, allowing for lots and lots of games with fairly decent profits. Activision's is also obvious, take new and popular titles and use tons of hype and mass production.

Bungie is no better. They aren't giving you weekly updates and high-quality games out of the goodness in their hearts, as you suggest. They are simply getting themselves a large group of devout fanboys that will buy their games the night they come out and follow them wherever they go, BECAUSE IT IS IN THEIR BEST INTERESTS AS A GAME DEVELOPER! It allows Bungie to make different series (plural) in different genres without too much fear of flopping, giving them much larger flexibility than EA, which is generally stuck to only a few game titles, or Activision, which is wholy reliant on new IPs coming out that Activision can milk.

And Valve could possibly be considered the worst. They use a bit of Bungie's plan, where they develope good games in order to get a large fanbase. With Steam, however, they couple it with allowing of an easy-to-reach market where any game is just a click and a couple of bucks away, and the ability for Valve to receive all the money, none put into making or distributing the game and none given to any other developer.

Now you may point out that Valve and Bungie are improving the game industry, but do you think they really care? That's simply a biproduct, a non-profit one at that. Morals are the thinking of a idealistic brain, but wealth is given to the realistic one. It is stupid to call one company evil when they are simply trying to make a buck, and naive to call one company good when they share the same goal.
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Post by Toaster on Mon May 17, 2010 2:55 pm

Do you guys have any idea how cheap used EA sports games are? I sold a copy of madden '07 (my dad bought it, and never played it) to GameStop the day after madden '08 came out. They gave me 98 Cents.

Now, obviously, gamestop probably went and sold that game for a little more than that, but used copies of madden are, nevertheless, INCREDIBLY CHEAP.

Is it really fair to EA that some cheap asshole can pick up their game for 2 bucks, and log onto their servers just like anyone else? Honestly, they're providing an extended service, and they're charging people for it. If they were charging the ten dollars ON TOP OF the price of a NEW game, I would have something against it...

Having to pay a total of 12 dollars for a used video game AND online functionality really isn't "price gouging."
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Post by Rotaretilbo on Mon May 17, 2010 9:45 pm

TNine wrote:YOU ARE STILL BUYING A GAME THEY MADE WITHOUT THEM GETTING ANY MONEY. I LITERALLY CANNOT MAKE THIS ANY CLEARER.

But that doesn't matter! Imagine for a moment that Ford made it so that whenever you bought a used car, you had to pay Ford a royalty fee. Would that be fair? No. Ford sold the car, and in doing so, relinquished any right to profit from the car. Someone else paid Ford money, and now owns the car and may do with it as they please within the bounds of the law. If they sell it to someone else, that person now owns the car, and may do with it as they please within the bounds of the law. Ford doesn't get to make money on the car each time its sold, only the first time.

The same applies here. EA sold the game, relinquishing any right to continually profit on the game. They have no right to take away people's rights to sell something they own.

TNine wrote:The people buying the games secondhand are not their customers, neither are those who like third party developers. It will not have a negative impact on EA games.

It will have a negative impact on all gamers. If the creativity of the industry dries up, all gamers will be affected. I'd further point out that purchasing a game from EA and buying a game used are not mutually exclusive. Just because you buy a game used does not automatically mean that you don't buy games from EA, as well.

TNine wrote:Steam is, from what i know, a fairly new marketing scheme that is already wildly successful. It will grow exponentially in the next few years.

It will grow, but the boundaries that keep it from consuming the entire market are not about to disappear overnight.

TNine wrote:They weren't selling at a loss though. The beauty of online selling is that the actual distribution of a game is totally cost free. If gamestop buys for $5 and sells for $10, they are receiving $5 of profit, while when Steam sells for $7 dollars, they are selling the game cheaper and getting a larger profit.

While the distribution might be free, that doesn't mean that any price they sell at will be greater than the cost to produce the game. Distribution is not the only cost when making, marketing, and selling a game. So yes, selling TF2 at $3 a copy is selling at a loss.

TNine wrote:I was under the impression that Steam carried several titles that aren't sold by Valve. Supreme Commander comes to mind, but feel free to correct me if i'm wrong.

Valve isn't publishing for these companies: they are distributing for them. By your logic, GameStop is a also publisher.

TNine wrote:That is, of course, if the retailers buy all the copies. If the game isn't reviewed well, retailers won't buy. And doesn't that just show how flawed and in need of change and removal retailers are?

Again, not entirely true. If the game isn't reviewed well, fairweather retailers like Wal-Mart might not buy, and devoted retailers like GameStop won't buy as much. GameStop will still buy, even if the game is a total flop. The reason they don't buy as much is because when a game fails, it is on the retailers' shelves that the game, the asset sits. The publisher was paid, the retailer was not. So it only makes sense that they wouldn't overly invest in an unsafe game. They barely make it as is.

TNine wrote:As you pointed out earlier, retailers are on their last legs, and are very open to losing tons of money. According to that logic, they need to go.

Retailers are on their last leg because the publishers are sucking them dry, and because people like you are baying for their blood because they can't even begin to understand what is actually going on in the system. By your logic, we should close down all small specialty stops where the employees have to treat their customers well to ensure continued business and just open Wal-Marts in their place.

TNine wrote:Read that quote again. Slowly.

Feeling like an idiot yet?

I read it as "anyway" the first time. I also missed the cite, because I'm unfamiliar with whatever you are quoting from.

TNine wrote:This one is, though. Actually, there are hundreds of ways to maximize profit that are illegal, but i was referring to the legal ones.

I'm pretty sure that what EA is doing is almost illegal. Right on the border.

TNine wrote:Are you fucking five?

No.

TNine wrote:This is big buisness, there are no morals, not at EA, not at Activision, not at Valve, not at Bungie.

And that's ok? You're down with that. Do whatever it takes to make a buck? Fuck whoever gets in your way?

TNine wrote:They are all simply using different routes to profit. EA's strategy is obvious, get a few iconic titles and hammer a new one out every year, allowing for lots and lots of games with fairly decent profits. Activision's is also obvious, take new and popular titles and use tons of hype and mass production.

And both of these strategies result in lower quality products. The only reason they get away with it is because they can buy out practically anyone who can compete with them.

TNine wrote:Bungie is no better. They aren't giving you weekly updates and high-quality games out of the goodness in their hearts, as you suggest. They are simply getting themselves a large group of devout fanboys that will buy their games the night they come out and follow them wherever they go, BECAUSE IT IS IN THEIR BEST INTERESTS AS A GAME DEVELOPER! It allows Bungie to make different series (plural) in different genres without too much fear of flopping, giving them much larger flexibility than EA, which is generally stuck to only a few game titles, or Activision, which is wholy reliant on new IPs coming out that Activision can milk.

You realize that making games for profit and honestly trying to please your fanbase are not mutually exclusive, right? This isn't a black and white issue. Bungie isn't some soulless company that cares only for making money.

TNine wrote:And Valve could possibly be considered the worst. They use a bit of Bungie's plan, where they develope good games in order to get a large fanbase. With Steam, however, they couple it with allowing of an easy-to-reach market where any game is just a click and a couple of bucks away, and the ability for Valve to receive all the money, none put into making or distributing the game and none given to any other developer.

Someone needs to check their facts. Valve doesn't sell other developer's games on Steam. Other developers do. They pay Valve for the service, but otherwise, get all of the profits.

TNine wrote:Now you may point out that Valve and Bungie are improving the game industry, but do you think they really care? That's simply a biproduct, a non-profit one at that. Morals are the thinking of a idealistic brain, but wealth is given to the realistic one. It is stupid to call one company evil when they are simply trying to make a buck, and naive to call one company good when they share the same goal.

No, it is not. Because I take issue with the means, not the ends. It is perfectly fine to want to make money. It is not perfectly fine to want to make money by stepping on everyone else's head. EA steps on a lot of heads and uses a lot of dirty tricks to maximize profit. Valve caters to their customers to make profit. One is the hallmarks of a corrupt business, and the other the hallmarks of an ideal business.

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Post by Divine Virus on Tue May 18, 2010 1:37 pm

I think the real promblem here is that those of us, including myself, who buy used games more so then new are getting the shit end of the deal.

How long before all used games end up like this.

Article on Ubisoft now doing something about there used game sales.
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Post by LeafyOwNu2 on Tue May 18, 2010 8:00 pm

TNINE

I honestly do not understand why you do not understand this. Have you ever heard of the right of first sale? Once EA has sold a copy of the game and received their profits for it they no longer have any type of ownership of that game.

Lets say EA made 3 games. It cost them $30 dollars to make each game. They sold the game for $45 dollars. They made $15 dollars profit for each game, $45 dollars in total. Once you make a purchase EA no longer owns the game, you do. You can sell it if you want.

If you do sell your one game for $35 dollars, EA gets nothing. They already made their profits on the disc. They didn't lose any money at all because they already got compensation for that disc. EA should not be paid for something they already got paid for.


In the end I think this is a stupid idea by EA. When I buy games I buy them used for the mere fact that I save 5 dollars. I am not going to support a company that wants to place this plan into action. If EA actually does this I will never support them by purchasing anything from them.

Tnine, they should not get paid for something they already got paid for. Plain and simple.
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Post by Ringleader on Tue May 18, 2010 9:17 pm

Ubisoft, NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!


You used to be good, now your crooked like a politician!
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Post by dragoon9105 on Tue May 18, 2010 9:23 pm

lets put it like this

you want to buy a game, no wait anything no longer in production.

now what happens if after you buy the game on Ebay a man in a suit knocks on your door demanding you pay him for buying his company's product. in addition to what you already paid.

Will you pay this man?
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Post by BBJynne on Wed May 19, 2010 5:48 am

The only real argument in EA's favor is that buying used reduces demand for new, thus losing them potential money.

There's not much they can do about that except what they're doing, which is to effectively make used games either worthless or overpriced.
(they could also lower costs of new somehow, but I doubt that will happen)

As a consumer, what EA is doing is terrible, and I personally don't think they should do something like it unless they're about to go broke or something.

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