GODDAMN IT EA!! NOT ANOTHER THING!!!

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Post by Rotaretilbo on Tue May 11, 2010 7:58 pm

Frankly, this will probably put the retailers out of business.

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Post by PiEdude on Tue May 11, 2010 8:03 pm

Yeah, but I meant in regards to Blockbuster, it's not going to help the franchise at all, therefore, only hurting it.

I just felt I needed to clarify.
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Post by Lord Pheonix on Tue May 11, 2010 8:08 pm

Gonna be a lot of pissed off casual gamers who will never have heard about this buying games off their friends.



And it pretty much kills borrowing games from people.

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Post by Rotaretilbo on Tue May 11, 2010 9:04 pm

As far as I can tell, Blockbuster and Hollywood Video are already out of business, or soon will be. This could be the final nail in the coffin for them. I'm more concerned about game retailers that carry all games. I've been through Walmart's video game aisles, and I've got to say, they really don't carry much. I guess, on the bright side, it will probably force tons of third party developers to Steam...

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Post by TNine on Tue May 11, 2010 9:15 pm

KristallNacht wrote:basically, they're just making more pirates, so I don't give a fuck.

Just wait for Google to appear as a publisher and all will be good.


ps. for those that never noticed, Google tends to start stepping into the territory of every company that starts overstepping their bounds when it comes to serving the people.



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Two things:
1.) How long do you honestly think piracy will last? Another ten, fifteen years? Anti-piracy laws and enforcement has only been going up, i can't honestly see it lasting much longer.

2.) The problem here is that the people that care about this change aren't worth a damn anyway. It's not like DRM, where it hurts everyone, this new rule hurts only the people that it's meant to hurt. The big question here is why SHOULDN'T EA do this?
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Post by TNine on Tue May 11, 2010 9:16 pm

Rotaretilbo wrote:As far as I can tell, Blockbuster and Hollywood Video are already out of business, or soon will be. This could be the final nail in the coffin for them. I'm more concerned about game retailers that carry all games. I've been through Walmart's video game aisles, and I've got to say, they really don't carry much. I guess, on the bright side, it will probably force tons of third party developers to Steam...
Why would they move to Steam?
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Post by Rotaretilbo on Tue May 11, 2010 9:19 pm

Because Walmart doesn't carry games made by lesser known third party developers. And if EA puts the game retailers out of business like they surely just put the rental stores out of business, Steam will be the only place that will be willing to carry their games. Either that, or they'll all go Indie and make games for XBL Marketplace.

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Post by TNine on Tue May 11, 2010 9:24 pm

Rotaretilbo wrote:Because Walmart doesn't carry games made by lesser known third party developers. And if EA puts the game retailers out of business like they surely just put the rental stores out of business, Steam will be the only place that will be willing to carry their games. Either that, or they'll all go Indie and make games for XBL Marketplace.
Oh. I thought you meant that third party developers wouldn't like this new thing. I just hope Steam comes out with a console, cause i'm console 4 life (at least with FPS).

Also, you seem to be forgetting that you get a 7-day-trial that you get with the game, allowing for rentals but not long-term-usage.
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Post by Ukurse on Wed May 12, 2010 4:25 am

Fuck EA.
That Cerberus network bullshit was stupid, and now they have decided to take stupidity up a notch.

It is so obvious they are just a bunch of mindless drones that sit around a table, showing each other graphs of how sales went. Looking at the graphs, absent of emotion, motivated purely by the sent of money. they see that they might be be losing a fraction of their money from people using second hand games. So they narrow mindedly thought for a split-second about how they can squeeze more money out of their customers, and can to a quick conclusion.

I can understand their point of view. That they think people are sinning by lending or selling second hand games to one another. That those who lend or sell each other games are doom to eternity burning in hell, and therefore must be punished. So they decide to punish everyone, as though everyone is a sinner.

But who cares if you lend or sell a game. It is not like by lending or selling a game to someone you suddenly duplicate the game or something, making multiple copies of it. There will still only be one game, and one person with possession over it, and one person who can play it at a time (unless you can play 2player or more, in which case, it is designed to be played with 2 people or more at a time.)

When was the last time they went on a website like e-Bay or Trade Me. There is a entire industry built around second hand items, not just video game exclusive, but of all different types. It is not a sin, it is not a crime, it is not frowned upon, it is not bad in any way, shape or form. Once some one if finished with a game, and had all the fun they wanted out of it, that does no make it a crime to let someone else use the game, the game that they already payed for. Once you sell it, it should be their property, to do what they will. And for you to act as though people selling second hand game that you may have developed is stealing money off you, is rediculous.
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Post by KristallNacht on Wed May 12, 2010 5:30 am

TNine wrote:
1.) How long do you honestly think piracy will last? Another ten, fifteen years? Anti-piracy laws and enforcement has only been going up, i can't honestly see it lasting much longer.

enforcement actually almost completely stopped after the RIAA sued an 8 year old boy and a woman who was dead.

the laws may be going up, but eventually they're halted by the constitution. The only enforcement that exists is the 3 strike rule on internet access which isn't even a viable threat, especially when using private trackers.



based on your logic, there shouldn't even be crime now. Enforcement and laws have been going up for decades, it still happens. Because the criminals are always one step ahead.
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Post by KristallNacht on Wed May 12, 2010 5:33 am

YouCurse wrote:Fuck EA.
That Cerberus network bullshit was stupid, and now they have decided to take stupidity up a notch.

not really, Cerberus was basically a way to hand out free DLC to first time buyers, and make the same collection of DLC cost $15 for those that bought at a discounted price.
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Post by PiEdude on Wed May 12, 2010 6:17 am

TNine wrote:2.) The problem here is that the people that care about this change aren't worth a damn anyway. It's not like DRM, where it hurts everyone, this new rule hurts only the people that it's meant to hurt. The big question here is why SHOULDN'T EA do this?

What?! Are you kidding me?

How about because it doesn't allow people who rent the game to play online? Which, by the way, is often the reason for renting it in the first place.

How about because it's effectively murdering the second-hand gaming industry (as others have said) in the field of sports games?

How about because it's another fucking ten dollars per game, just to do something that you've either already paid for on X-Box Live, or something that you're supposed to get for free on PSN, just because you didn't have the money, or didn't want to buy the game new?
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Post by Vigil on Wed May 12, 2010 6:47 am

Rents are usually between 4-7 days, more than enough time to play it online with the 7-day trial.

Nobody expect the store that sells you the game get money from used games. IT's a MASSIVE finnical hole in the gaming industry.

True, but they expect you to pay full price, but honestly, amazon and play.com barely sell new games at full price, so it won't have such a massive impact to me.

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Post by Cheese on Wed May 12, 2010 9:26 am

Yeah, I'm with Vigil. There's a difference between Scrooge McDucking the pennies and trying to get hold of a third of your potential profit.

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Post by Rotaretilbo on Wed May 12, 2010 2:45 pm

Not when trying to get a hold of a third of your potential profit puts half the retailers out of business. Used games is the only thing keeping game stores afloat, because they carry all games, but only make profit on top sellers. And when the "big bad" retailers all go out of business, third party developers who can't afford to advertise their game on every TV channel will pretty much die out, because no one will carry their game (except for Steam), and then we will have an industry bankrupt of creativity, because the only people left will be the puppets of the publishers making the same fucking bullshit as before and shoving it down our throats. The only bastion of hope in this whole mess is that Valve will still be independent and will generally be unaffected by the death of retailers.

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Post by PiEdude on Wed May 12, 2010 3:51 pm

Vigil wrote:Rents are usually between 4-7 days, more than enough time to play it online with the 7-day trial.

Many people who use Blockbuster (myself included) choose the option to pay a monthly fee in exchange for keeping 2 games, 2 movies, or a game and a movie for any amount of time with no fees.
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Post by Vigil on Wed May 12, 2010 3:53 pm

Well your out of luck then.

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Post by Felix on Wed May 12, 2010 3:56 pm

Rotaretilbo wrote:Not when trying to get a hold of a third of your potential profit puts half the retailers out of business. Used games is the only thing keeping game stores afloat, because they carry all games, but only make profit on top sellers. And when the "big bad" retailers all go out of business, third party developers who can't afford to advertise their game on every TV channel will pretty much die out, because no one will carry their game (except for Steam), and then we will have an industry bankrupt of creativity, because the only people left will be the puppets of the publishers making the same fucking bullshit as before and shoving it down our throats. The only bastion of hope in this whole mess is that Valve will still be independent and will generally be unaffected by the death of retailers.

Glad to know Valve is your one saving grace...
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Post by TNine on Wed May 12, 2010 4:01 pm

PiEdude wrote:
TNine wrote:2.) The problem here is that the people that care about this change aren't worth a damn anyway. It's not like DRM, where it hurts everyone, this new rule hurts only the people that it's meant to hurt. The big question here is why SHOULDN'T EA do this?

What?! Are you kidding me?

How about because it doesn't allow people who rent the game to play online? Which, by the way, is often the reason for renting it in the first place.

How about because it's effectively murdering the second-hand gaming industry (as others have said) in the field of sports games?

How about because it's another fucking ten dollars per game, just to do something that you've either already paid for on X-Box Live, or something that you're supposed to get for free on PSN, just because you didn't have the money, or didn't want to buy the game new?
And EA cares why? If you don't like it, don't buy games secondhand. EA gives a fuck if you refuse to buy it at all, if the other alternative was buying second-hand.

Also, renting is still a viable option, provided you don't lend for longer than a week.
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Post by TNine on Wed May 12, 2010 4:09 pm

Rotaretilbo wrote:Not when trying to get a hold of a third of your potential profit puts half the retailers out of business. Used games is the only thing keeping game stores afloat, because they carry all games, but only make profit on top sellers. And when the "big bad" retailers all go out of business, third party developers who can't afford to advertise their game on every TV channel will pretty much die out, because no one will carry their game (except for Steam), and then we will have an industry bankrupt of creativity, because the only people left will be the puppets of the publishers making the same fucking bullshit as before and shoving it down our throats. The only bastion of hope in this whole mess is that Valve will still be independent and will generally be unaffected by the death of retailers.
Finally, an actual point beyond "but i dun wanna pay EA for ther gamez!".

The gaming industry will adapt. We still have Steam, which ironically does the exact same thing. And i bet Steam-like distribution (downloading games online) will become more and more common, and i bet it will become the primary way of getting games in the next few years.
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Post by Kasrkin Seath on Wed May 12, 2010 5:10 pm

I would rather have hard copies of my games

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Post by Divine Virus on Wed May 12, 2010 5:14 pm

kasrkin seath wrote:I would rather have hard copies of my games
Me too. Same with my Music.
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Post by Rotaretilbo on Wed May 12, 2010 5:32 pm

TNine wrote:Finally, an actual point

A point I've already made several times in this thread.

TNine wrote:beyond "but i dun wanna pay EA for ther gamez!".

You mean "but i dun wanna pay EA for ther gamez that they was alredy paid for!" right?

TNine wrote:The gaming industry will adapt.

Adapt? Have you seen how the industry has adapted so far? There is a startling pattern within the industry. Publisher buys developer. Publisher fucks developer. Publisher discards developer like dirty whore and takes credit for developer's work. Publish profits, developer falls apart. And you think that by giving more power to the publishers, things will get better?!

TNine wrote:We still have Steam, which ironically does the exact same thing.

Hardly. While Steam does take away from game retailers, it does so as an alternative to game retailers. Steam does not make it impossible for game retailers to exist, because it is a game retailer. It ensures that game retailers have to keep their prices somewhat fair to compete with it.

TNine wrote:And i bet Steam-like distribution (downloading games online) will become more and more common, and i bet it will become the primary way of getting games in the next few years.

And I bet that everyone but Valve will ensure that their distribution mediums do not include third-party games that aren't guaranteed to profit, even if the games are awesome. It will be Double Fine Productions/Majesco but on a much larger scale. And as the publishers take more and more control, eventually Valve will fall, and the game industry will be defeated. And God, when that happens, I hope it just dies, because witnessing the industry stumbling around as an undead thing is surely far worse than at least having the consolation that at least it is in a better place.

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Post by TNine on Wed May 12, 2010 6:04 pm

Rotaratiblo wrote:
TNine wrote:beyond "but i dun wanna pay EA for ther gamez!".

You mean "but i dun wanna pay EA for ther gamez that they was alredy paid for!" right?
You are buying the game without EA recieving any kind of profit.

Rotaratiblo wrote:
TNine wrote:The gaming industry will adapt.

Adapt? Have you seen how the industry has adapted so far? There is a startling pattern within the industry. Publisher buys developer. Publisher fucks developer. Publisher discards developer like dirty whore and takes credit for developer's work. Publish profits, developer falls apart. And you think that by giving more power to the publishers, things will get better?!
Not the point, at all. I'm saying gamestop will still be there, cause games still need to be sold.

Rotaratiblo wrote:
TNine wrote:We still have Steam, which ironically does the exact same thing.

Hardly. While Steam does take away from game retailers, it does so as an alternative to game retailers. Steam does not make it impossible for game retailers to exist, because it is a game retailer. It ensures that game retailers have to keep their prices somewhat fair to compete with it.
But it is so painfully easy and much cheaper, the only real reason Steam isn't used is:
1.) People want hard copies, which, from what i can tell, is only a few people.
2.) Steam doesn't offer that many products.
3.) Steam is PC's only

I can't imagine Gamestop can compete with TF2 for $2.49 a pop.

Also, i don't know if you can consider steam a retailer, as it is not selling physical products. But i will not go down that path.

Rotaratiblo wrote:
TNine wrote:And i bet Steam-like distribution (downloading games online) will become more and more common, and i bet it will become the primary way of getting games in the next few years.

And I bet that everyone but Valve will ensure that their distribution mediums do not include third-party games that aren't guaranteed to profit, even if the games are awesome. It will be Double Fine Productions/Majesco but on a much larger scale. And as the publishers take more and more control, eventually Valve will fall, and the game industry will be defeated. And God, when that happens, I hope it just dies, because witnessing the industry stumbling around as an undead thing is surely far worse than at least having the consolation that at least it is in a better place.
1.) I can't see Valve falling, merely greedifying. They have a great lineup of awesome games and a large fanbase.
2.) The beauty with the online publishing is every game will profit (at least for the publishers). There is no reason to not support a game.
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Post by Rotaretilbo on Wed May 12, 2010 7:17 pm

TNine wrote:You are buying the game without EA recieving any kind of profit.

Incorrect. EA has already profited from the game I am purchasing. I am buying a game that would otherwise be thrown away. And if this new policy spreads, that's what's going to happen to unwanted games: they'll be thrown away. EA was paid for one copy of the game, and that's exactly what they gave. It shouldn't matter who owns said copy, because at the end of the day, the number of copies on the market (piracy aside) do not exceed the number of copies EA received payment for.

TNine wrote:Not the point, at all. I'm saying gamestop will still be there, cause games still need to be sold.

Game retailers make jack shit right now. The only reason they're still alive is because they can buy used games for say $5 and then resell them for $35, making a $30 profit rather than the $5 profit they make on new games. The industry will adapt, yes. It will adapt so that game retailers go out of business and third party developers cease to be. The issue here is that you assume that adapt means "get better."

TNine wrote:But it is so painfully easy and much cheaper, the only real reason Steam isn't used is:
1.) People want hard copies, which, from what i can tell, is only a few people.
2.) Steam doesn't offer that many products.
3.) Steam is PC's only

And those are three BIG reasons. Frankly, the only two games I've bought over Steam are L4D and L4D2, and I regret not having hard copies. Also, people have doubts about putting their credit card information on the Internet. Not to mention that, without a credit card, no Steam purchases for you. And for some reason, there are quite a lot of people who loathe Steam.

TNine wrote:I can't imagine Gamestop can compete with TF2 for $2.49 a pop.

Neither can I. Thankfully, TF2 is $19.99 a pop, which is a price retailers can compete with. In fact, I'm pretty sure that GameStop's price for TF2 matches Steam's price.

TNine wrote:Also, i don't know if you can consider steam a retailer, as it is not selling physical products. But i will not go down that path.

I consider it a retailer because it is selling a product rather than a service. Whether this product can be physically held in my hand holds no relevance to whether or not it qualifies as a product.

TNine wrote:1.) I can't see Valve falling, merely greedifying. They have a great lineup of awesome games and a large fanbase.

And when the entire industry is controlled entirely by publishers, Valve will eventually be given an offer they can't refuse, bought by a publisher, and the rest is history.

TNine wrote:2.) The beauty with the online publishing is every game will profit (at least for the publishers). There is no reason to not support a game.

Every game already profits. EA is just ensuring that they don't have to support games for long by cutting out resale options. Furthermore, even with new games, the publishers already take the largest cut. They don't need extra profits. The fuckers are already the richest, greediest sons of bitches in the industry. If anything, we should be trying to help developers, but sadly, since most of the developers are now owned by publishers, publishers get to suck them dry anyway. I mean, fuck, the publishers profit even when the games don't sell, because the retailers effectively have to buy them at $45 a pop.

So imagine that a retailer buys 100 copies of 10 games. The various publishers (and developers, if they aren't owned by a publisher) of these games walk away with a total of $45,000. Now imagine two are best sellers, three are mediocre, and five are obscure. The best sellers sell out, the mediocre games sell fifty copies, and the obscure games sell twenty-five copies. The retailer just made $875. Now, the retailer buys some games back from people and resells them. Let's say they buy half of the best sellers a few months later at $5 each. They now have made $625. But now, imagine that half of these used games are resold at $35. They're total profit shoots up to $1,500. Now they can afford to pay their employees and maybe their utility bills.

See the problem? The publishers already take huge profits from these games. To demand that they make more profit every time the game is resold is absolute bullshit, and in my opinion, is bordering illegal.

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Rotaretilbo
Rotaretilbo
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