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Post by Ringleader on Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:39 pm

http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2010/04/mitochondria-engineering/

So apparently, it is possible to have 3 parents, the third giving mitochondrial DNA to the embryo. Quite fascinating if you ask me.

:face:
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Post by XNate02 on Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:40 pm

May god help the a child that has three parents lol
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Post by KristallNacht on Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:46 pm

i thought mitochondrial dna was from the female only?
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Post by TNine on Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:58 pm

KristallNacht wrote:i thought mitochondrial dna was from the female only?
Ditto.
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Post by Ringleader on Sun Apr 18, 2010 9:04 pm

It is, so you can have two moms and a dad.

The question is, can you have a mom, a dad, and a horse?
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Post by Rasq'uire'laskar on Sun Apr 18, 2010 9:33 pm

Mother's Day at that house is going to be interesting.
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Post by Vigil on Mon Apr 19, 2010 10:22 am

Not really.

Mitochrondria are in laymans terms the AA batteries of the cell. They're just dumping out ones that might have a genetic disease for a clean fresh one.

They have their own DNA which isn't tied into the rest of your genetic code.

Besides Mitochrondria from the start have been genetic hybrids, as they contain bacterial ribosomes and plasmid DNA, as well as human compenants.

It sounds like a good idea to me, as no ethical problems spring to mind, and the only problem I could think of was looking at your family tree for other disorders.

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Post by KrAzY on Mon Apr 19, 2010 11:30 am

there are no ethical problems behind it unless you are looking at it from behind the religion screen


I think its less ethical to have a child knowing your going to pass on a hereditary disease to it than to get DNA from a 3rd person to make the kid healthy
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Post by Vigil on Mon Apr 19, 2010 11:51 am

KrAzY wrote:there are no ethical problems behind it unless you are looking at it from behind the religion screen


I think its less ethical to have a child knowing your going to pass on a hereditary disease to it than to get DNA from a 3rd person to make the kid healthy

And that's the view most scientists would and have taken.

It's just people can be really stupid when it comes to new Genetic breakthroughs, saying that it's against nature, or playing god etc.

GM crops for example. Absolutely nothing wrong with them, but a little panic and suddenly they're banned.

Let's hope it doesn't happen with this.

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Post by Felix on Mon Apr 19, 2010 12:40 pm

Threesome anyone?
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Post by Ringleader on Mon Apr 19, 2010 4:37 pm

there are no ethical problems behind it unless you are looking at it from behind the religion screen

Really? I think there are more ethical issues from an evolutionary standpoint. If you are bypassing the system that allows people to inherently superior to other people, then our inherent quest of self proliferation is for nothing, and people thinking that they know what is best for other people from a genetic standpoint is historically flawed.

People may be genetically superior to others, if someone can run faster then I can, then they are superior to me in this respect, not to say it is a racial issue, because races are the effect of applied evolution in a specific environment, so there is no superior race, but I hope we all know that within these groups, some are better suited to life in their specific environment, we just cannot see this now because none of us live somewhere where being a faster runner will make you more successful then if you were 450lbs and 5'3".

If we give those people with disorders the mitochondria of Micheal Phelps, then that would be good for THEM, but not for everyone else, whom are now that much less in comparison. Disease and genetic disorders are an unfortunate byproduct of the simplicity and ease of our way of life, but we had evolved to live in conjunction with diseases and disorders, and I don't understand this obsession to fill the planet with as many humans as (in)humanly possible, and make them all live at the highest possible standards. You know that stone age cultures in the Amazon almost never have any disorders? faulty eyesight, asthma, rarely at all, they rarely have crooked teeth too. Thier society works in conjunction with human evolution, and not against it, like ours now.

So, I guess my main point is that we do not know what is really good for us on this matter, and even with good intentions, we could cause irreparable damage to our genome. I think it would be more ethically correct for people to simply live the way they are, and if they are predisposed with disorders, then there shouldn't be anything we can do for us to change them,
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Post by BBJynne on Mon Apr 19, 2010 4:49 pm

Every time I read 'mitochondria', I see 'midichlorians'.

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Post by Ringleader on Mon Apr 19, 2010 4:52 pm

I am sure that's what 'inspired' Lucas.
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Post by Vigil on Mon Apr 19, 2010 5:13 pm

Ringleader wrote:
there are no ethical problems behind it unless you are looking at it from behind the religion screen

Really? I think there are more ethical issues from an evolutionary standpoint. If you are bypassing the system that allows people to inherently superior to other people, then our inherent quest of self proliferation is for nothing, and people thinking that they know what is best for other people from a genetic standpoint is historically flawed.

People may be genetically superior to others, if someone can run faster then I can, then they are superior to me in this respect, not to say it is a racial issue, because races are the effect of applied evolution in a specific environment, so there is no superior race, but I hope we all know that within these groups, some are better suited to life in their specific environment, we just cannot see this now because none of us live somewhere where being a faster runner will make you more successful then if you were 450lbs and 5'3".

If we give those people with disorders the mitochondria of Micheal Phelps, then that would be good for THEM, but not for everyone else, whom are now that much less in comparison. Disease and genetic disorders are an unfortunate byproduct of the simplicity and ease of our way of life, but we had evolved to live in conjunction with diseases and disorders, and I don't understand this obsession to fill the planet with as many humans as (in)humanly possible, and make them all live at the highest possible standards. You know that stone age cultures in the Amazon almost never have any disorders? faulty eyesight, asthma, rarely at all, they rarely have crooked teeth too. Thier society works in conjunction with human evolution, and not against it, like ours now.

So, I guess my main point is that we do not know what is really good for us on this matter, and even with good intentions, we could cause irreparable damage to our genome. I think it would be more ethically correct for people to simply live the way they are, and if they are predisposed with disorders, then there shouldn't be anything we can do for us to change them,

So you would deny people a treatment that would greatly improve their quality of life and lifespan, because you think we'll get the 'designer babies' scenario?

If that is the case, you'd better not ever need prostethtics, or a pacemaker, or IVF treatment when you want a child. We been playing with our bodies for years now, with drugs, artifical organs and more recently genetics. Gene therapy does exist and without it diseases like Breast cancer, Cystic Fibrosis and many more would be untreated.

The whole principle of IVF is to allow couples who 'Naturally infertile' be able to have children, now is this wrong? You may believe tampering with evolution, but honestly, I see more of a step to equality. How can we all be equal if some of us are debiliatated by horrible genetic diseases or infertile? Evolution is adapting to your environment, and as a species it doesn't apply to us as much as it once did, as we shape our environment to shape us, so that argument is redudndant.

Oh and the reason why the amazoians don't have any of those diseases? Because those children would be dead within the first few years if life. Survival of the fittest after all. Is this fair? We now live in a society where we all are supposed to have equal opportunity and rights. SHouldn't this apply for the right to one's right to exist?

Scienctists work in a very strict laws of ethics and conduct. The amount of rules in these area is staggering. The treatment would only given to the people who need it, not to some arrogant couple who want these genes perfected. I do agree there is always a possibilty of new scientific discoveries being used for dark ends, but there is enough rules and control to stop this and happening and it has the potential to really help people who desperately need it.

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Post by Rasq'uire'laskar on Mon Apr 19, 2010 9:33 pm

Ringleader, the problem I have with what you stated is that a lot of that stuff is determined by lifestyle, not genetics.

Vigil wrote:
So you would deny people a treatment that would greatly improve their quality of life and lifespan, because you think we'll get the 'designer babies' scenario?
Well, I'm willing to look at it as a process similar to an organ transplant.

Vigil wrote:Oh and the reason why the amazoians don't have any of those diseases? Because those children would be dead within the first few years if life. Survival of the fittest after all. Is this fair? We now live in a society where we all are supposed to have equal opportunity and rights. SHouldn't this apply for the right to one's right to exist?
Extend that right to unborn babies, and I'll vote with you on that.

Vigil wrote:Scienctists work in a very strict laws of ethics and conduct. The amount of rules in these area is staggering. The treatment would only given to the people who need it, not to some arrogant couple who want these genes perfected. I do agree there is always a possibilty of new scientific discoveries being used for dark ends, but there is enough rules and control to stop this and happening and it has the potential to really help people who desperately need it.
Well, I'd have to say that I can't agree with you here. There's not /quite/ enough regulation over IVF and future reproductive technologies.
And if what we've seen is any indication, technologies that are used to help people will be grabbed up by pharmaceutical companies. Not inherently bad, but I'm afraid that the technology will be farmed out to give couples their designer babies.

Three problems I foresee:
-The more we muck around, the more chances we have of seriously screwing things up. If the defect takes a lifetime to manifest, or is passed down to the next generation, who pays? What if the company has already gone out of business?
-Depletion of the gene pool, or at least making it shallower than it already is, is a worry to me. Genetic diversity is what prevents pandemics from being an everyday occurrence. Take a look at what happened to the Dutch Elm.
-A little further out there, but what if the designer babies become popular, or at least available, and parents opt to have their kids smarter than average, and get them a propensity for an athletic build and good looks?
It'll be something of a disappointment, to the parents and the kid, when the kid isn't perfect.
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Post by Barbbachello on Tue Apr 20, 2010 12:03 am

Ringleader wrote:It is, so you can have two moms and a dad.

The question is, can you have a mom, a dad, and a horse?

Sounds like a story behind a black guy porno
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Post by Ukurse on Tue Apr 20, 2010 3:48 am

If anyone remembers Esruku,
He has three Grandmothers if that is relevant.
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