Here's to year 17...

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Post by Spartan15 on Sun Feb 21, 2010 7:39 pm

Baconsen wrote:
Spartan15 wrote:
Baconsen wrote:=O
I'm 17 too!

But i have a car. =P
Happy B Days
How about bringing it over to Australia and taking me for a spin in it lol?
You pay for the trip, and i'll be there.
=)
If i had that much money, i'd go for a trip around the world and explore places.
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Post by Ukurse on Sun Feb 21, 2010 8:44 pm

Happy Birthday bro
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Post by Rotaretilbo on Sun Feb 21, 2010 11:03 pm

Ziggy wrote:Considering that my friends who smoke mostly buy them off some really fucking scummy people, I would say that it does encourage dodgy behavior to some extent.

They should do what everyone else does and get a fake ID so they can buy them themselves. Or are you buggers like not even passable as being 18?

Ziggy wrote:Also, don't you think that smoking should be a personal choice? If somebody wants to smoke, so be it.

That's exactly how I feel. The problem is that I don't think people below the age of 18 (or 26, for that matter) are capable of making personal choices of this nature, because they have yet to fully develop their frontal lobe, where rational thinking is controlled.

Ziggy wrote:It doesn't effect their behaviour and interactions with other people, so why should it be of any concern to others?

You don't think that smoking doesn't affect how a person behaves?

Ziggy wrote:Apart from second hand smoke of course, which can be prevented by not smoking near people who aren't smoking, I don't see any problem.

Of course, most people in life are douches, so I can't walk around campus without getting a fair dose of second hand smoke.

Ziggy wrote:It's a life choice.

A life choice that people are not fully ready to make at such an early age.

Ziggy wrote:It's like sunbaking. Going off your implications, it sounds like you may as well ban sunbaking because it causes cancer. You know how many teenage girls sunbake? Or banning coconut oil because it encourages people to sunbake, therefore increasing the chance of cancer.

The fallacy here is that that something near 500000 people die each year directly because of tobacco use, whereas about 12000 people die each year from all types of skin cancer (not specific to sun bathing). Further, there are ways to sun bathe in a completely safe manner that is guaranteed to not cause skin cancer of any kind. The same cannot be said of cigarettes.

Ziggy wrote:And of the people that I do know who smoke, including the rare smoke myself, it's nothing more than a couple of cigarettes at a party, or when we go out anywhere which isn't exactly every day. I've only met one pack-a-day smoker who was a teenager and she was pretty messed up and trashy anyway.

The question being, was her being trashy why she smoked a pack a day, or the other way around?

Ziggy wrote:Anyway, if you like a nice strong espresso or any other coffee, you'd probably like cigarettes. They give you that sorta kick, and it isn't too bad.

Except that one is a slightly bitter beverage and the other involves inhaling smoke and other various poisonous chemicals.

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Post by Ziggy on Mon Feb 22, 2010 1:24 am

Smoking doesn't change your behaviour. Or at least I should say it hasn't when I've smoked. You get headspins the first few times, but other than that nothing else. Headspins are great fun though, anyway.

Anyway, this argument ultimately lies with the inconsiderateness of the majority of asshats who smoke in public, as well as the huge circumstantiality of who is smoking, why they are smoking, and where they are smoking. I personally do not smoke in public, and I don't even smoke much at all to begin with. Just the occasional cigarette, and it ain't gonna kill me or fry my lungs.

Also Rot, question, have you smoked a cigarette?

And another thing, you realise that 90% of people who smoke under the age of 18 smoke very very infrequently. Next to none are pack a day smokers, so how is the occasional and essentially harmless cigarette that bad of a life choice for teenagers, assuming that they aren't idiots and don't smoke around others who don't want to smoke?
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Post by Ukurse on Mon Feb 22, 2010 1:31 am

I personally hate people who smoke, and I hate being around people who smoke.
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Post by Ziggy on Mon Feb 22, 2010 3:30 am

Why do you hate people who smoke, assuming that they don't smoke around you? It's like me hating you for having a spiderman signature.
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Post by Barbbachello on Mon Feb 22, 2010 4:05 am

Ukurse wrote:I personally hate people who smoke, and I hate being around people who smoke.
Me too

Ziggy wrote:Why do you hate people who smoke, assuming that they don't smoke around you? It's like me hating you for having a spiderman signature.
Because they smell and are usually not the nicest people if they smoke enough to smell like an ash tray
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Post by Rotaretilbo on Mon Feb 22, 2010 9:47 am

Ziggy wrote:Smoking doesn't change your behaviour. Or at least I should say it hasn't when I've smoked. You get headspins the first few times, but other than that nothing else. Headspins are great fun though, anyway.

It causes irritability and the like, but not while your smoking. It's generally time spent between cigarettes where your behavior becomes nonplus.

Ziggy wrote:Anyway, this argument ultimately lies with the inconsiderateness of the majority of asshats who smoke in public

To some degree. It can be noted that people who smoke may also smell of smoke, even when not smoking.

Ziggy wrote:as well as the huge circumstantiality of who is smoking, why they are smoking, and where they are smoking.

Why do you smoke, anyway? There are perfectly legal and safe alternatives to getting a little kick that don't involve inhaling smoke for the lulz.

Ziggy wrote:I personally do not smoke in public, and I don't even smoke much at all to begin with. Just the occasional cigarette, and it ain't gonna kill me or fry my lungs.

At least, not for a while. Of course, cigarettes are specifically addictive, so what was once the occasional cigarette will become a couple cigarettes, and then it will become a pack of cigarettes, and then you'll realize you have a problem and seek to quit, but you can't, because you're addicted. This is why the argument made for marijuana doesn't apply to cigarettes. Cigarettes are dangerous, have been known to kill hundreds of thousands each year, and are much more addictive than other substances.

Ziggy wrote:Also Rot, question, have you smoked a cigarette?

I've already said no, haven't I?

Ziggy wrote:And another thing, you realise that 90% of people who smoke under the age of 18 smoke very very infrequently. Next to none are pack a day smokers, so how is the occasional and essentially harmless cigarette that bad of a life choice for teenagers, assuming that they aren't idiots and don't smoke around others who don't want to smoke?

I know a handful of people that smoke and are under 21, and most have them started out as infrequent smokers and are now on to at least two a day. When they haven't had their cigarette, they get irritated and are more prone to say spiteful things or yell over little things. A few of them have tried to quit, but even with patches or gum, it's really tough to do, and even if you do quit, it just takes that one moment of weakness for the addiction to completely reestablish itself.

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Post by KristallNacht on Mon Feb 22, 2010 10:57 am

Ziggy wrote:
And another thing, you realise that 90% of people who smoke under the age of 18 smoke very very infrequently. Next to none are pack a day smokers, so how is the occasional and essentially harmless cigarette that bad of a life choice for teenagers, assuming that they aren't idiots and don't smoke around others who don't want to smoke?

thats how it starts.

Cigarettes are designed to be addictive, so that will increase later in life.

the reason teenagers smoke infrequently is not because they don't WANT to smoke more its because they can't really get away with smoking more.
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Post by Ziggy on Mon Feb 22, 2010 1:38 pm

Yeah, that's how it CAN start, but it's not how it ALWAYS starts. My sisters ocassionally smoke when they go out, just a few cigarettes, nothing excessive. They've been doing this for years, but I don't see either of them putting in any effort to obtain cigarettes. They're of legal age, but they don't go and buy them.

Not everybody who smokes will get addicted, and not everybody who smokes is a smelly, irritable scumbag. That's what everybody here needs to realise.
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Post by KristallNacht on Mon Feb 22, 2010 1:47 pm

your sister is addicted >.>
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Post by Spartan15 on Mon Feb 22, 2010 9:28 pm

Ziggy wrote:Yeah, that's how it CAN start, but it's not how it ALWAYS starts. My sisters ocassionally smoke when they go out, just a few cigarettes, nothing excessive. They've been doing this for years, but I don't see either of them putting in any effort to obtain cigarettes. They're of legal age, but they don't go and buy them.

Not everybody who smokes will get addicted, and not everybody who smokes is a smelly, irritable scumbag. That's what everybody here needs to realise.
Actually nearly everyone who starts smoking gets addicted to them Ziggy. They should ban smoking and alchohol throughout the entire globe and they would find that violence, car accidents and bingeing would decrease dramatically. People just use smoking and alchohol as the " easy way out" of problems in there life and to rid themselves of stress.
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Post by Ziggy on Mon Feb 22, 2010 10:51 pm

Ad hominem and what not, but Spartan, I think you need to leave your basement and maybe meet some real people. You clearly have no understanding of society, and especially society within Australia considering that is where you live. I actually doubt that you've met more than 5 people who smoke and/or drink. Seriously, your perceptions of society are totally ridiculous. You have no idea at all about what you are talking about. NONE at all.
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Post by Death no More on Tue Feb 23, 2010 1:00 pm

Ziggy wrote:Ad hominem and what not, but Spartan, I think you need to leave your basement and maybe meet some real people. You clearly have no understanding of society, and especially society within Australia considering that is where you live. I actually doubt that you've met more than 5 people who smoke and/or drink. Seriously, your perceptions of society are totally ridiculous. You have no idea at all about what you are talking about. NONE at all.
Most people do get addicted ziggy, just because you don't see your sister smoke all the time doesn't mean that she's not addicted. For all we know she might not have the money or maybe you don't see her enough to tell how much she does smoke. My father drinks and I can tell you he's addicted, and most of the time when someone takes a drug they have a good chance of getting addicted to it.
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Post by Ziggy on Tue Feb 23, 2010 1:29 pm

Seriously, I know lots of people that smoke infrequently, and I know for a fact that they aren't addicted. You obviously don't know many smokers, because almost none of the teenagers who smoke will get addicted during their teen years, and most of them stop smoking once they reach 20 or so. I don't give a shit if you want to tell me that "almost everybody who tries a drug will get addicted" because that is the biggest load of nonsense ever and it only shows that you're basing all of your evidence off of what you see on the news, and not what you actually have experienced with real people, aside from your father.
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Post by BBJynne on Tue Feb 23, 2010 2:06 pm

Spartan15 wrote:They should ban smoking and alcohol throughout the entire globe and they would find that [it's better]
tried it, denied it

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Post by A_Bearded_Swede on Tue Feb 23, 2010 2:08 pm

BBJynne wrote:
Spartan15 wrote:They should ban smoking and alcohol throughout the entire globe and they would find that [it's better]
tried it, denied it
Yeah, BB's right.
It'll just cost way to much trying to stop people from smoking and drinking.
They'd might as well just put a tax on it.
Which they do. ^_^

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Post by Rotaretilbo on Tue Feb 23, 2010 5:33 pm

Ziggy wrote:Seriously, I know lots of people that smoke infrequently, and I know for a fact that they aren't addicted. You obviously don't know many smokers, because almost none of the teenagers who smoke will get addicted during their teen years, and most of them stop smoking once they reach 20 or so. I don't give a shit if you want to tell me that "almost everybody who tries a drug will get addicted" because that is the biggest load of nonsense ever and it only shows that you're basing all of your evidence off of what you see on the news, and not what you actually have experienced with real people, aside from your father.

Someone here is in denial, and it isn't me.

As I said, I know plenty of people who smoke. You can make a case for marijuana not being addictive, but cigarettes contain nicotine, which is highly addictive. This is not conjecture; this is medical fact. You probably don't want to think that they are addicted because "they" refers to you too. You are, after all, an "infrequent smoker" who will "stop smoking once [you] reach 20 or so." Let me tell you, when you no longer have to go behind people's backs to get cigarettes and you have money from work to actually spend, you aren't just going to stop smoking. You'll probably justify smoking a bit more often. And slowly, you will start to become irritable. If you don't have a cigarette, you'll be hostile and grouchy. Rather than realizing you have a problem and that you need to stop smoking, you'll use this to justify smoking more. By the time you realize you have a problem, you'll be so hooked that quitting won't seem feasible. You'll probably make a few attempts, fail miserably several times, and just come to accept that smoking is part of your life. After a while, you'll finally quit, and you'll live smoke free for six or seven months. But then you'll fall off the wagon and you'll be even more hopelessly addicted than you were before.

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Post by BBJynne on Tue Feb 23, 2010 5:59 pm

[post edited for a better tomorrow]

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Post by KrAzY on Tue Feb 23, 2010 6:36 pm

Ill tell you, ziggy... as someone who has been at 3 separate colleges.... one of which at the time was considered the #1 party school in the nation.... any argument that smoking and drinking is not addictive is being made by someone who is either completely in denial, or has never actually been around high quantities of people doing this crap


at WVU 70% of the student population got drunk more than 3 times a week... and 30% of the population smoked a pack of cigarettes or more a day according to a student poll in 2008

WVU has 30,000 students... go ahead and do the math
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Post by Cheese on Tue Feb 23, 2010 6:55 pm

Yeah... in my experience I'm going to have to side with Ziggy. I actually know quite a few people who smoke infrequently and have either stopped or will only maybe take somebody else up on the offer. Sure nicotine is addictive but that doesn't mean everyone's going to get addicted to it.

As for alcohol, I generally end up going out at least twice a week and getting drunk. I think most students do. But that's really more about the event. The proof in that is that you'll very rarely find somebody who drinks heavily alone - and if you do then odds are they are addicted.

If anything I'm far more addicted to c affine.

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Post by Ringleader on Tue Feb 23, 2010 7:41 pm

You get drunk twice a week for the "event"?

Most everyone I know that smokes is addicted to smoking, Nicotine is like, one of the most addictive substances on the planet.

Here's to year 17... - Page 3 Addictiongraph1

Why do you hate people who smoke, assuming that they don't smoke around you? It's like me hating you for having a spiderman signature.
Because people who smoke smell bad, and they must not care about their health to be inhaling burning ash into their lungs. If they don't care about the inside of their bodies, they probably don't care a whole lot about the outside of their bodies, which constitutes me, and my daily activities, which include breathing in clean air. I don't think you really believe disliking someone for smoking and disliking someone for having a Spiderman signature are equitable.

Where I live, people no longer care about other people, like they have no manners, so it bugs me that they have even less concern for others and themselves. Especially at my school, people are really self centered there.
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Post by Spartan15 on Tue Feb 23, 2010 8:14 pm

Ziggy wrote:Ad hominem and what not, but Spartan, I think you need to leave your basement and maybe meet some real people. You clearly have no understanding of society, and especially society within Australia considering that is where you live. I actually doubt that you've met more than 5 people who smoke and/or drink. Seriously, your perceptions of society are totally ridiculous. You have no idea at all about what you are talking about. NONE at all.
Ah actually you're quite wrong there Ziggy. I know plenty of people that smoke and drink. Half my friends smoke and about half my relatives aswell. I just think that people in modern day society need to decrease the amount of cigarettes they have and also decrease the amount of alcohol that they have, hence the druken violence that seems to be occurring more and more frequently these days. And my understanding of society is as good as it ever was thank you. I think it is you that is blinded by the need to smoke that demonstrates you have no understanding of how society should be operating.
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Post by Ziggy on Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:06 pm

@Krazy
When did I ever say that smoking or drinking wasn't addictive? Fucking christ you lot jump to conclusions. I never said that. I simply said that not everybody who smokes will get addicted. And I don't even smoke much Rot, so I'm clearly not in denial of anything. So what you want bro, but your internet crusades really don't mean anything at the end of the day for me.

@Spartan
And when did I say that there was any need for smoking? I simply said that people should be allowed to smoke if they want to, assuming that they aren't smoking near people who don't want to smoke, and that they aren't smoking too heavily.

@Ringleader
Okay, so the people I know who smoke don't smell like smoke, and actually care for their body. The only amount of smoking that's going to do considerable harm to your lungs is a pack a day for a few years. That's what fucks up your lungs, not <10 cigarettes a week in the case of plenty of people I know, but not me. I don't even smoke anywhere near as much as that. I just have one or two when I'm out, and that's pretty damn infrequently these days cos of how sucky my school is.

Anyway, a little lesson on logic:

If cigarettes contain chemicals that encourage addiction, that does not mean that everybody who smokes one cigarette is highly likely to get addicted. If you cannot understand that, then you're a serious fucking moron who probably hasn't ever smoked a single cigarette, and probably doesn't know too many people who smoke them.

Anyway whatever you say, I'm not addicted to cigarettes at all, nor are any of my friends or family. I know people who are addicted, so I do know the difference. And I don't even know why you lot are trying even argue against smoking with me, considering that I don't intend on withdrawing from smoking forever simply because you're a bunch of squares who are afraid of the (stigma of) tobacco.
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Post by KrAzY on Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:09 pm

Ziggy wrote:Seriously, I know lots of people that smoke infrequently, and I know for a fact that they aren't addicted. You obviously don't know many smokers, because almost none of the teenagers who smoke will get addicted during their teen years, and most of them stop smoking once they reach 20 or so. I don't give a shit if you want to tell me that "almost everybody who tries a drug will get addicted" because that is the biggest load of nonsense ever and it only shows that you're basing all of your evidence off of what you see on the news, and not what you actually have experienced with real people, aside from your father.
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