Time

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Post by Gauz on Thu Oct 08, 2009 8:47 pm

Is it real, or is it illusion, a unit of measurement?

I've had this argument with a few people and can't really come up with a definant answer. I think time is just a unit of measurement, a concept. However, other people think that it is in fact, a real phenomena, or a physical one at least.
Well, is it? Our measurement of time on Earth is just our position compared to the sun, but some crazy shit I won't be able to comprehend on Wikipedia says otherwise.


Thoughts?
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Time Empty Re: Time

Post by Nocbl2 on Thu Oct 08, 2009 8:52 pm

Unit of measurement.
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Post by KristallNacht on Thu Oct 08, 2009 8:52 pm

time doesn't exist a an actual thing.

because the act of creating time requires time to already exist, and if time always existed then how did we get to this point in time?
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Post by Felix on Thu Oct 08, 2009 8:58 pm

Time waits for no man; except Chuck Norris.
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Time Empty Re: Time

Post by Rasq'uire'laskar on Thu Oct 08, 2009 9:04 pm

Time is more than a concept of the mind.
Guess what? Five minutes ago, the relative positions of the Earth, the Moon, the Sun, and the Galaxy were completely different. SOMETHING MUST HAVE CHANGED.
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Time Empty Re: Time

Post by KristallNacht on Thu Oct 08, 2009 9:19 pm

Rasq'uire'laskar wrote:Time is more than a concept of the mind.
Guess what? Five minutes ago, the relative positions of the Earth, the Moon, the Sun, and the Galaxy were completely different. SOMETHING MUST HAVE CHANGED.

and time had what to do with the change?
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Post by Rotaretilbo on Thu Oct 08, 2009 10:51 pm

Let me put this to you simply.

Space. Is it real, or is it illusion, a unit of measurement?

Time, like space, is just a 3D plane on which things move. However, Time incorporates the fourth, fifth, and sixth dimensions (which are complex to the point of being extremely difficult to comprehend, but for our purposes, we'll call the fourth the passage of time, the fifth choice, and the sixth chance), whereas Space incorporates the first, second, and third dimensions (length, width, and height, respectively).

However, because we exist in the third dimension, we perceive the passage of time frame by frame, rather than as a whole. To help you understand this, a creature in the second dimension would experience the third dimension in frames, so that a sphere would be a dot, then a small circle, the a medium circle, then a large circle, then a small circle, and then a dot, etc.

So really, time is real, but it is not a measurement or a force, but rather, a dimension above our own that we can barely even understand.

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Time Empty Re: Time

Post by KristallNacht on Fri Oct 09, 2009 3:52 am

proof time is real?

like i said, the creation of time requires time, and time can't exist forever else this point in time would never have been made.
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Time Empty Re: Time

Post by Toaster on Fri Oct 09, 2009 4:12 am

The twin paradox tells us that time is a physical force.
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Time Empty Re: Time

Post by KristallNacht on Fri Oct 09, 2009 5:19 am

ReconToaster wrote:The twin paradox tells us that time is a physical force.

The twin paradox also isn't entirely verifiable. the entire basis of special relativity is assumption, not fact.
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Post by PiEdude on Fri Oct 09, 2009 6:16 am

In b4 my head asplodes.
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Post by Elabajaba on Fri Oct 09, 2009 6:18 am

PiEman wrote:In b4 my head asplodes.
Mine already did Sad

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Time Empty Re: Time

Post by Kasrkin Seath on Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:25 pm

I thought special relativity was disproved

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Time Empty Re: Time

Post by Toaster on Fri Oct 09, 2009 3:01 pm

Kasrkin Seath wrote:I thought special relativity was disproved

I think you mean "proven"

I'm quite sure we've done experiments that verify Einstein's findings.

We've taken two PERFECTLY SYNCED atomic clocks, placed one deep in the ground, and another in an airplane. We send the jet on a one-way trip around the Earth, and when you bring the clocks back together, you'll find that they display different times.

The time difference matches perfectly with Einstein's equations.

Special Relativity is by far the most ridiculous idea I've ever heard of... but it's true.

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Post by MrX on Fri Oct 09, 2009 3:24 pm

your all just being idiots trying to think of excuses and smart theories

time = the measurement of the earths rotation
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Post by CivBase on Fri Oct 09, 2009 3:26 pm

umm... bilco, that's hardly an explanation.

We measure time based on Earth's rotation, but that isn't what makes it time.

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Post by Toaster on Fri Oct 09, 2009 3:53 pm

sargentbilco wrote:your all just being idiots trying to think of excuses and smart theories

time = the measurement of the earths rotation

The point is that time is relative to its observer.

A spaceship traveling near the speed of light could reach the center of the Milky Way Galaxy in 21 year from the perspective of the astronauts on board. But when they return to Earth, they'd find that nearly 30,000 years have gone by back home.

Time is really just a way of measuring sequence of events... but that sequence of events is relative to its observer.
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Time Empty Re: Time

Post by KristallNacht on Fri Oct 09, 2009 4:41 pm

ReconToaster wrote:
We've taken two PERFECTLY SYNCED atomic clocks, placed one deep in the ground, and another in an airplane. We send the jet on a one-way trip around the Earth, and when you bring the clocks back together, you'll find that they display different times.

because that is a clear measurement of the effects of time....


once again, like i said, Special Relativity is based on assumption.

all we know is that they came back different. there could be any number of unknown reasons for this.
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Post by CivBase on Fri Oct 09, 2009 4:50 pm

Time is as real as any other measurement.

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Time Empty Re: Time

Post by Kasrkin Seath on Fri Oct 09, 2009 6:14 pm

ReconToaster wrote:
Kasrkin Seath wrote:I thought special relativity was disproved

I think you mean "proven"

I'm quite sure we've done experiments that verify Einstein's findings.

We've taken two PERFECTLY SYNCED atomic clocks, placed one deep in the ground, and another in an airplane. We send the jet on a one-way trip around the Earth, and when you bring the clocks back together, you'll find that they display different times.

The time difference matches perfectly with Einstein's equations.

Special Relativity is by far the most ridiculous idea I've ever heard of... but it's true.

Special Relativity and General Relativity are two different things.
Anyways, chances are im thinking of something else being disproven.

Recon, I know all about those experiments.


Time is a measurement system applied to a concept

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[00:17:28] @ KrAzY : the law can now be a person.
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[00:17:32] @ Gauz : I'd kick everyone....
[00:17:37] @ KrAzY : and that person is seath
[00:17:39] @ kasrkin seath : YES
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[02:22:43] @ KrAzY : the reason we all come to TCF is because Seath is too Lord Pheonix damn sexy to stop.
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Post by TNine on Fri Oct 09, 2009 7:24 pm

Whoever says that time is simply where we are realative to the sun are, well, idiots.

That's how me measure time, but if everything in the universe was stationary, time would still exist, albeit hard to prove.

Time is the fourth dimension, it is a line just like the first. We have no control of our passage of time, which makes me interested if there is something that does.
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Time Empty Re: Time

Post by Toaster on Fri Oct 09, 2009 10:17 pm

KristallNacht wrote:

because that is a clear measurement of the effects of time....

Care to explain how it isn't?


KristallNacht wrote:once again, like i said, Special Relativity is based on assumption.

all we know is that they came back different. there could be any number of unknown reasons for this.

Like what? You think the scientists tampered with the equipment or something? Occam's Razor. The simplest answer is usually to most reliable one. The idea that time is affected by gravity has been verified and excepted by the scientific community for quite some time now. Stop trying to blatantly deny a proven theory simply because you do not like the way it sounds. It does sound fucking ridiculous, but we know it to be true. Deal with it.


These clocks weren't just "different", they varied from one another exactly as Einstein's equations suggested they would.
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Post by Divine Virus on Fri Oct 09, 2009 10:19 pm

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Time Empty Re: Time

Post by tiny tim on Sat Oct 10, 2009 12:38 am

ReconToaster wrote:
Kasrkin Seath wrote:I thought special relativity was disproved

I think you mean "proven"

I'm quite sure we've done experiments that verify Einstein's findings.

We've taken two PERFECTLY SYNCED atomic clocks, placed one deep in the ground, and another in an airplane. We send the jet on a one-way trip around the Earth, and when you bring the clocks back together, you'll find that they display different times.

The time difference matches perfectly with Einstein's equations.

Special Relativity is by far the most ridiculous idea I've ever heard of... but it's true.


Actually, Einsteins equation was incomplete. It did not allow for anti-matter, which we have developed already. The complete equation is E=+Or-MC squared.

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Post by Ziggy on Sat Oct 10, 2009 2:52 am

Exactly, Bilco. To us, it's a measurement based around the rotation of our planet.

I think the thread is a bit ambiguous on which time we are referring to. Are we referring to time as a unit of measurement or are we referring to time as a supposed physical force?
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