KN's Guide to Fixing the Country

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KN's Guide to Fixing the Country - Page 7 Empty Re: KN's Guide to Fixing the Country

Post by Ziggy on Sun Nov 15, 2009 6:45 am

Again, you're missing the point entirely and further proving how immature you are. Whatever, bro. It's a general comment. Notice how I mentioned the forum as a whole?
Anyway Angatar, you've proved through this thread alone that you have the maturity and arguing capability of a 7 year old.

I apologise for trying to bring a bit of peace around and reduce the constant bickering.
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Post by RX on Sun Nov 15, 2009 6:51 am

As I see it, Ziggy, you're saying that people argue too much in the debate section. I actually think that the Debate section is here so that people CAN argue.
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Post by Gold Spartan on Sun Nov 15, 2009 6:51 am

Ziggy, it's the fucking debate section. If you don't like them arguing, then go to a different section.
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Post by Angatar on Sun Nov 15, 2009 7:07 am

Ziggy wrote:Again, you're missing the point entirely and further proving how immature you are. Whatever, bro. It's a general comment. Notice how I mentioned the forum as a whole?
Anyway Angatar, you've proved through this thread alone that you have the maturity and arguing capability of a 7 year old.

I apologise for trying to bring a bit of peace around and reduce the constant bickering.
Yes, and calling me names and demeaning me is really showing how mature you are.

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Post by LeafyOwNu2 on Sun Nov 15, 2009 9:31 am

I dont even think this is ever related to NT's idea anymore, it turned into a

"Im right"
"No, IM RIGHT"
"Stop being so Immature"
"No YOUR IMMATURE"

types of conversations.
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Post by Gauz on Sun Nov 15, 2009 12:04 pm

Ziggy isn't saying that we shouldn't argue in the debate section morons, he meant the ENTIRE FORUM if you idiots didn't get that in the first place. He's right, almost EVERY thread has been twisted into a debate/argument outside the debate thread.
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Post by Ringleader on Sun Nov 15, 2009 12:05 pm

Ziggy wrote:
Ringleader wrote:

Agreed, but I think Ziggy shouldn't have to do that, he was making a suggestion with the impression Angatar can be reasoned with.

Poor poor Ziggy...

Oh no, it just makes me laugh. People like Dud Doodoo, and a lot of others on this forum, are either incredibly over-sensitive, or they just spend most of their time trying to make an argument out of every post, purely to fuel their ego or assert testosterone-fueled dominance. It's so unbelievably childish and pathetic, but it still makes me laugh. I have not seen a thread where somebody has not jumped on a post and made an argument out of it, or has been hostile for the sake of causing conflict.

Well, I mean, he (Dud) was trying to do a clean sweep of all the points brought up, and when you do that, you (anyone) tend to keep the same attitude for all the points you are addressing, even though we are not entirely against what you are saying.

I don't think you should have to compile all the points on either side of the debate, to avoid the "Instead of being a lazy F#$%!" Phenomenon, but I don't think Dud meant that in a Testosterone driven rage sort of way when he suggested it, I think he just, brought it up as a point.
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Post by Death no More on Sun Nov 15, 2009 12:11 pm

Ar-Ex wrote:As I see it, Ziggy, you're saying that people argue too much in the debate section. I actually think that the Debate section is here so that people CAN argue.
It's not the debating that he's being pissy about its the damn people that wont just give up (When they are clearly beaten) and that are stubborn, as well as the people that take things to personal in the debates.

Gauz wrote:Ziggy isn't saying that we shouldn't argue in the debate section morons, he meant the ENTIRE FORUM if you idiots didn't get that in the first place. He's right, almost EVERY thread has been twisted into a debate/argument outside the debate thread.
^ This as well is probably pissing him off.
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Post by LeafyOwNu2 on Sun Nov 15, 2009 12:16 pm

Death no more wrote:
Ar-Ex wrote:As I see it, Ziggy, you're saying that people argue too much in the debate section. I actually think that the Debate section is here so that people CAN argue.
It's not the debating that he's being pissy about its the damn people that wont just give up (When they are clearly beaten) and that are stubborn, as well as the people that take things to personal in the debates.

Gauz wrote:Ziggy isn't saying that we shouldn't argue in the debate section morons, he meant the ENTIRE FORUM if you idiots didn't get that in the first place. He's right, almost EVERY thread has been twisted into a debate/argument outside the debate thread.
^ This as well is probably pissing him off.

I.E. people in real life, and himself. He has tried for the past 3 pages to make it point and no one will accept it. So he is basically going against what you stated.

He needs to make himself more clear. He comes into a debate thread and starts complaining that we are arguing. Don't try to make excuses for him. A debate thread about the US turning into stoners has nothing to do with us arguing all over the forum.
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Post by Gold Spartan on Sun Nov 15, 2009 12:16 pm

Gauz wrote:Ziggy isn't saying that we shouldn't argue in the debate section morons, he meant the ENTIRE FORUM if you idiots didn't get that in the first place. He's right, almost EVERY thread has been twisted into a debate/argument outside the debate thread.
Well....that would explain a lot.
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Post by Dud Doodoo on Sun Nov 15, 2009 1:03 pm

Ziggy wrote:
Dud Doodoo wrote:
Putting aside the fact that this thread resides in the debate forum, I find it funny that I am the one out of everyone referenced in a comment about being overly aggressive.

"It just makes me laugh"

So, you're trying to justify your jumping onto my fairly passive comment with "this thread resides in the debate forum"?
And you're trying to claim that your jumping into this conversation and calling us (me specifically) egotistical, unbelievably childish, and pathetic, was passive. Who has the better argument here?

Ziggy wrote:
Cool. Refer back to my comment about insensitivity and not reacting or arguing against posts when it is clearly not necessary or rational.
Let me clue you in on how this whole "debate" thing works. First, someone makes an argument. Then, someone responds to the points made in that argument. This cycle continues until the participants come to a resolution, most commonly being an "I'm right and you're wrong, kk?" Any and every post made will be either agreed with or argued with, depending on my stance. I hardly make exceptions, and most people don't on here either.

Ziggy wrote:
And really, you're sort of confirming my comment by trying to rebut it. It's a pretty firm observation, and I don't think I'm the only person who feels that people need to just chill the fuck out around here.
I am confirming that I will debate an argumentative post made in the debate section. I agree that much of this debate shouldn't revolve around personal attacks, which is all you have made since you entered this thread in the first place.

Ziggy wrote:
Also, it's not really aggression in your case, more in people like AJ and Angatar.
Then why the hell did you reference me?

Ziggy wrote:
But still, I see a lot of people on this forum who feel that it's their duty to rebut nearly every post made here, regardless of how contentious, passive, or neutral it may be. It causes a whole lot of unnecessary conflict, and it's just pathetic.

And @Angatar, you mind explaining how this is ironic? I don't find it ironic at all.
Again, let us go over the structure of a debate. Someone makes an argument, the next person responds to the points made in those argument. If someone posts their views on the subject, that is essentially the beginning of an argument. I also assume you speak of this post:

Oh no, it just makes me laugh. People like Dud Doodoo, and a lot of others on this forum, are either incredibly over-sensitive, or they just spend most of their time trying to make an argument out of every post, purely to fuel their ego or assert testosterone-fueled dominance. It's so unbelievably childish and pathetic, but it still makes me laugh. I have not seen a thread where somebody has not jumped on a post and made an argument out of it, or has been hostile for the sake of causing conflict."
I would hardly call that contentious, passive, or neutral in the slightest.

None of my posts made thus far have been an argument against you, whereas you responded to me with an argument about being too argumentative and over aggressive by calling me egotistical, unbelievably childish, and pathetic. You argued that we debate too much in the debate forum, there is the irony.

Ziggy wrote:Again, you seem to be missing the point of that post. It wasn't me saying "I'm much better than you", or me "fueling my ego", because I would have worded it much differently. I'm actually saying that you all need to just shut the fuck up and not argue in every single thread over the most minute and insignificant things.
Of course not, coming into this thread and attempting to belittle us by saying we are egotistical, unbelievably childish, and pathetic is in absolutely no way related to you trying to look better than us.

Ziggy wrote:
Everybody knows that it occurs to much, and when I raise a point about how people argue too much, people try and rebut that! It's just stupid, and it makes this forum pretty unappealing at times.
No one else has said that except maybe gauz, and assuming someones opinion without them giving any notion of their position must be one of the best examples of ignorance there is.

Ziggy wrote:
Your social skills are pretty fucked if you think that you should always be right, and that you should always assert your opinion, aggressively or not, regardless of the consequences of doing so.
I commend you in your excellent use of the most widely used prepackaged response in the history of debate. "YOU ALWAYS HAVE TO BE RIGHT!!!11111111111!!!!!!!!1111!!!!1" is possibly one of your biggest misconceptions in this entire argument, and they are many. We stand by and defend our views and opinions, and in no way does that mean we think we are always right.

Ziggy wrote:
Also, if you try and refute this comment, you're only validating and reinforcing my argument.
As I have said above, your last comment was the most widely used prepackaged responses there is, and this is the second.

Ziggy wrote:Again, you're missing the point entirely and further proving how immature you are. Whatever, bro. It's a general comment. Notice how I mentioned the forum as a whole?
Sorry, I must have missed it after you specifically cited Angatar, AJ, and me.

Ziggy wrote:
Anyway Angatar, you've proved through this thread alone that you have the maturity and arguing capability of a 7 year old.
So this is your way of
Ziggy wrote:
trying to bring a bit of peace around and reduce the constant bickering.
in the debate section?
LeafyOwNu2 wrote:I dont even think this is ever related to NT's idea anymore, it turned into a

"Im right"
"No, IM RIGHT"
"Stop being so Immature"
"No YOUR IMMATURE"

types of conversations.
Oh no, I think we left that topic somewhere around page 5.

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Post by Ziggy on Sun Nov 15, 2009 1:40 pm

Fuck, how many times do I have to say it? This is not just about the DEBATE forum. This is about EVERY SINGLE FUCKING SUB-FORUM.

And the passive comment I was referring to was me saying that the two of them should summarise their arguments to stop confusion, which you then proceeded to try and rebut even when the comment was entirely passive and not requiring any form of rebuttal. The reason why I posted that here was because it was relevant, given that you decided you'd rebut such an

And the aggression was never stated. I never said anybody was aggressive, just overly hasty when it came to arguing with everybody on every single matter, and in every single sub-forum and thread. Not just this one. You were the one that put the aggression into play.

As Leafy said, I probably mistook your comment as somewhat hostile which made me actually react to it in the first place, but given that this is most likely not the case, I apologise for that.

My point still does stand, as Gauz said too, that everybody argues in this forum a hell of a lot, debate sub-forum or not. And when I try and tell people that they need to stop arguing, they then pick up my comment and try and argue it more. It's just stupid. All I'm seeing is denial, or an inability to realise that there is such a shitstorm of bickering in almost every thread. Any further rebuttal of this point is pretty much saying "How can you say we're always turning everything into an argument?" and then proceeding to argue against the point.
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Post by Ringleader on Sun Nov 15, 2009 1:44 pm

And the passive comment I was referring to was me saying that the two of them should summarise their arguments to stop confusion, which you then proceeded to try and rebut even when the comment was entirely passive and not requiring any form of rebuttal. The reason why I posted that here was because it was relevant, given that you decided you'd rebut such an

And the aggression was never stated. I never said anybody was aggressive, just overly hasty when it came to arguing with everybody on every single matter, and in every single sub-forum and thread. Not just this one. You were the one that put the aggression into play.

Yeah, I think your right here.
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Post by Toaster on Sun Nov 15, 2009 2:09 pm

Ziggy wrote:Fuck, how many times do I have to say it? This is not just about the DEBATE forum. This is about EVERY SINGLE FUCKING SUB-FORUM.

My point still does stand, as Gauz said too, that everybody argues in this forum a hell of a lot, debate sub-forum or not. And when I try and tell people that they need to stop arguing, they then pick up my comment and try and argue it more. It's just stupid. All I'm seeing is denial, or an inability to realise that there is such a shitstorm of bickering in almost every thread. Any further rebuttal of this point is pretty much saying "How can you say we're always turning everything into an argument?" and then proceeding to argue against the point.

If it's not about arguments in the debate section, then bring it up somewhere else. What set leafy off in the first place was arguing in the debate section... and then upon scrutiny from dud, you both changed your stance, and turned this into a discussion about the entire forum community.
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Post by Rotaretilbo on Sun Nov 15, 2009 4:05 pm

Here, let me sum everything up for you guys.

NT is an idiot. He says things that are likely meant to be shocking, and then adamantly defends them using his I'm-ignoring-anything-you-say-that-I-can't-refute technique. His guide to "save" the country would not actually be very effective.

End of discussion. Locked.

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