KN's Guide to Fixing the Country

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Post by KristallNacht on Sun Sep 27, 2009 7:48 pm

1. Legalize Marijuana
2. Reduce minimum wage until it doesn't exist
3. Voucher System for Schools
4. Disband the unions
5. Nuclear Power



The voucher system semi privatizes the public school system. instead of the states and federal government paying and directly supporting schools the way they do, they would instead take the cost per student and issue vouchers (1 per student) to families each year. These vouchers would have the value of the current cost per student. The voucher would then be used to pay tuition each year at a private school. (thats the basics)


Last edited by KristallNacht on Mon Sep 28, 2009 10:57 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Post by PiEdude on Sun Sep 27, 2009 7:52 pm

1. Legalizing Mary Jane will do no good. More people will be lazy and useless and not want to do shit but smoke more pot, and since they won't want to get jobs they'll just rob liquor stores.

2. If there's noone doing minimum wage jobs, then how does society function?

3. I still don't get the Voucher System.
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Post by Gold Spartan on Sun Sep 27, 2009 7:58 pm

You left out pushing all mentally retarded people into super soldier programs and research on how to fix the mentally retarded people.
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Post by KristallNacht on Sun Sep 27, 2009 8:12 pm

PiEman wrote:1. Legalizing Mary Jane will do no good. More people will be lazy and useless and not want to do shit but smoke more pot, and since they won't want to get jobs they'll just rob liquor stores.

legalizing it does lots of good. it frees up law enforcement funds to be used on actually fighting the hard drugs. it lessens the strain on the prison system, saving us billions. and you are aware LOTS of successful people smoke pot right? and many are not lazy or useless.

and your last point is just ridiculous. Nobody wants to get a job, doesn't mean liquor stores are getting robbed all the time now

PiEman wrote:2. If there's noone doing minimum wage jobs, then how does society function?

....what? that has absolutely nothing to do with reducing minimum wage...

PiEman wrote:3. I still don't get the Voucher System.

its a publically funded privatized education system.
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Post by Ascendant Justice on Sun Sep 27, 2009 8:14 pm

KristallNacht wrote:1. Legalize Marijuana
2. Reduce minimum wage until it doesn't exist
3. Voucher System for Schools



The voucher system semi privatizes the public school system. instead of the states and federal government paying and directly supporting schools the way they do, they would instead take the cost per student and issue vouchers (1 per student) to families each year. These vouchers would have the value of the current cost per student. The voucher would then be used to pay tuition each year at a private school. (thats the basics)

.........Are you for serious? Or is this depicting sarcasm along the lines of your "How to win an Internet Debate" thread?
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Post by KristallNacht on Sun Sep 27, 2009 8:32 pm

please explain your point.
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Post by Dud Doodoo on Sun Sep 27, 2009 8:34 pm

Gold wrote:You left out pushing all mentally retarded people into super soldier programs and research on how to fix the mentally retarded people.

Fixing mental retardation is a simple thing. The technology exists, it simply hasn't been used on humans. Taking into account that it involves killing fertilized embryos, I don't think it will for a while either.

There is a method that neurologists have been using on rats. It involves separating neurons from the rest of the organism and treating the blob to dissolve the connections between the cells. Now you have a fluid of neurons that will reform around any input and output you give them. This has effectively been done with the rat brain car.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QPiF4-iu6g

Now to cure mental retardation, you must start off with a cloned embryo. This can be either be the patients or a highly functional doner, depending on the cause of retardation. If the cause is a genetic disorder, you will need to use the DNA of someone else. If it was caused by brain damage or the lack of cells, the DNA should come from the patient. If it comes from a doner there is a considerable chance of the body rejecting the cells, and I am not sure whether or not foreign cells would be able to form connections and function properly with the patient's. If the DNA comes from a patient, the whole process would go must smoother.

The culture of neurons would be grown then treated to dissolve the connections. Once they are ready, they must be injected into the brain of the patient within a specific time frame so that they do not form new connections before entering the brain. Once this is done the patient must go through a long period of re-education and development as the new cells develop from scratch. The plasticity of the brain will allow the new cells to form around the patients existing cells and his senses. The personality of the patient will be preserved, as the old cells will communicate and direct the new. That said, there is still the possibility of distortion.

I came up with this with cerebral palsy in mind, not down syndrome. While I am almost certain that using cloned cells from the patient would work, I am not so sure about an injection of a doner's cells. This procedure could be used to cure both blindness and deafness, as well as other types of brain damage.

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Post by PiEdude on Sun Sep 27, 2009 8:36 pm

KristallNacht wrote:
PiEman wrote:1. Legalizing Mary Jane will do no good. More people will be lazy and useless and not want to do shit but smoke more pot, and since they won't want to get jobs they'll just rob liquor stores.

legalizing it does lots of good. it frees up law enforcement funds to be used on actually fighting the hard drugs. it lessens the strain on the prison system, saving us billions. and you are aware LOTS of successful people smoke pot right? and many are not lazy or useless.
Well, you know what drunk driving is like right?

Now imagine the numbers for that, but increased by stoned driving.

KristallNacht wrote:
and your last point is just ridiculous. Nobody wants to get a job, doesn't mean liquor stores are getting robbed all the time now
Have you ever been near the South Side of Chicago?

KristallNacht wrote:
PiEman wrote:2. If there's noone doing minimum wage jobs, then how does society function?

....what? that has absolutely nothing to do with reducing minimum wage...
If corporations like McDonalds or Wal-Mart can pay their workers less than $2 per hour, than they sure as hell will.

If you mean something else, explain it to me please, and I'm sorry for misunderstanding.

KristallNacht wrote:
PiEman wrote:3. I still don't get the Voucher System.

its a publically funded privatized education system.

Thank you for clarifying that.
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Post by Ascendant Justice on Sun Sep 27, 2009 8:40 pm

KristallNacht wrote:please explain your point.

Are you serious about your changes? Like do you seriously think that those would make the world better? (not being a douche, just asking).
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Post by Gold Spartan on Sun Sep 27, 2009 8:41 pm

He's talking about America AJ.
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Post by KristallNacht on Sun Sep 27, 2009 8:49 pm

PiEman wrote:
Well, you know what drunk driving is like right?

Now imagine the numbers for that, but increased by stoned driving.

first off, driving under the influence would still be illegal. second, being high doesn't affect your motor skills as much as being drunk. third, being high reduces your WANT to drive, making you both paranoid about the consequences as well as lethargic. how many accidents happen now because of stoned driving? chances are thats not gonna change much.


Have you ever been near the South Side of Chicago?

and this has something to do with being high?


PiEman wrote:
If corporations like McDonalds or Wal-Mart can pay their workers less than $2 per hour, than they sure as hell will.

and then no one would work there.

supply and demand works on jobs as well.

the more a company pays, the less positions it can have, but the more people want the job.

if the wage was allowed to freely balance itself, inflation wouldn't be an issue, and there would be a vastly larger job market.
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Post by KristallNacht on Sun Sep 27, 2009 8:49 pm

Ascendant Justice wrote:
Are you serious about your changes? Like do you seriously think that those would make the world better? (not being a douche, just asking).

and I'm asking you to explain why those wouldn't fix anything
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Post by Ascendant Justice on Sun Sep 27, 2009 8:53 pm

KristallNacht wrote:
Ascendant Justice wrote:
Are you serious about your changes? Like do you seriously think that those would make the world better? (not being a douche, just asking).

and I'm asking you to explain why those wouldn't fix anything

So I take it you're being serious. In that case, I have different views on how the world could be made better. Those will be explained another time however.
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Post by PiEdude on Sun Sep 27, 2009 8:54 pm

KristallNacht wrote:
PiEman wrote:
Well, you know what drunk driving is like right?

Now imagine the numbers for that, but increased by stoned driving.

first off, driving under the influence would still be illegal. second, being high doesn't affect your motor skills as much as being drunk. third, being high reduces your WANT to drive, making you both paranoid about the consequences as well as lethargic. how many accidents happen now because of stoned driving? chances are thats not gonna change much.
It'll be more common place because pot wouldn't be illegal.

KristallNacht wrote:

Have you ever been near the South Side of Chicago?

and this has something to do with being high?
No, it has something to do with junkies robbing liquor stores.[/quote]

KristallNacht wrote:
PiEman wrote:
If corporations like McDonalds or Wal-Mart can pay their workers less than $2 per hour, than they sure as hell will.

and then no one would work there.

supply and demand works on jobs as well.

the more a company pays, the less positions it can have, but the more people want the job.

if the wage was allowed to freely balance itself, inflation wouldn't be an issue, and there would be a vastly larger job market.

The wage level would still be lower.

Obviously people who are desperate for jobs will have no choice.
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Post by Rotaretilbo on Sun Sep 27, 2009 8:55 pm

KristallNacht wrote:1. Legalize Marijuana

The only change I'd note here would be to have a tax on Marijuana. Personally, I'm against it, because Marijuana, side effects aside, has like twice as much tar as regular cigarettes, but if we do legalize it, we might as well charge loads for it, help pay off the deficit.

KristallNacht wrote:2. Reduce minimum wage until it doesn't exist

Or just get rid of it altogether in the first place. The problem with minimum wage that people don't seem to realize is that when a company is forced to pay its workers more, it either cuts benefits or lays off employees to compensate. If jobs don't offer fair wages, they won't attract employees, so a minimum really isn't particularly necessary.

KristallNacht wrote:3. Voucher System for Schools

I'm too lazy to read how this will work, but it could probably work. My main concern is the lack of addressing the issue of immigration, especially of the illegal sort.

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Post by PiEdude on Sun Sep 27, 2009 8:56 pm

Now btw guys, I won't be on for about another week, so can someone else argue in my place?

It's not that hard.
At this point it's more of an internet pissing contest than a debate.
Both sides just keep coming up with counter points until they're both exhausted and just start slinging shit, and/or the thread just dies a slow death and sinks to the bottom of the Debate section.
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Post by Rotaretilbo on Sun Sep 27, 2009 8:58 pm

PiEman wrote:It's not that hard.
At this point it's more of an internet pissing contest than a debate.
Both sides just keep coming up with counter points until they're both exhausted and just start slinging shit, and/or the thread just dies a slow death and sinks to the bottom of the Debate section.

Well ya. That's what happens when Pie, who is incapable of forming points, argues with NT, who is incapable of not insulting whoever he is arguing with. Razz

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Post by KristallNacht on Sun Sep 27, 2009 8:59 pm

PiEman wrote:
It'll be more common place because pot wouldn't be illegal.

just like legalizing alcohol increased consumption and death related to alcohol?

PiEman wrote:No, it has something to do with junkies robbing liquor stores.

uh huh....but right now, do all, or even a majority, of people that do pot rob liquor stores?

PiEman wrote:
The wage level would still be lower.

Obviously people who are desperate for jobs will have no choice.

Wage level being lower also reduces the prices of everything. and people desperate for jobs will at least HAVE a job in this case, assuming any companies even went down that low.

if minimum wage was eliminated and the real minimum was free following supply and demand, EVERYONE that wants a job would have a job, and there would be no empty positions.
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Post by KristallNacht on Sun Sep 27, 2009 9:03 pm

Rotaretilbo wrote:

The only change I'd note here would be to have a tax on Marijuana. Personally, I'm against it, because Marijuana, side effects aside, has like twice as much tar as regular cigarettes, but if we do legalize it, we might as well charge loads for it, help pay off the deficit.

well, legalizing would also reduce lots of government costs, in terms of imprisonment of non violent drug offenders as well as free up money to fight against the REAL problem drugs.

and there are actually pretty much zero side effects to marijuana, as opposed to smoking anything. its actually safer than cigarettes and alcohol on pretty much every level.

as well as Marijuana pretty much being the single most useful plant on the face of the earth.

rot wrote:

Or just get rid of it altogether in the first place. The problem with minimum wage that people don't seem to realize is that when a company is forced to pay its workers more, it either cuts benefits or lays off employees to compensate. If jobs don't offer fair wages, they won't attract employees, so a minimum really isn't particularly necessary.

pretty much. plus raising minimum wages eventually causes everything to cost more. my main issue with destroying it immediately would cause a serious economic flux that could be avoided by steadily lowering the minimum

rot wrote:My main concern is the lack of addressing the issue of immigration, especially of the illegal sort.

well, removing minimum wage pretty much stops illegals from being able to get jobs, and the voucher system pretty much stops them from getting and education as well..
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Post by Rotaretilbo on Sun Sep 27, 2009 9:22 pm

True, but it doesn't prevent them from leeching off our emergency medical stuff.

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Post by KristallNacht on Sun Sep 27, 2009 9:25 pm

realistically though, getting a job and education is the main thing they want.
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Post by Rasq'uire'laskar on Sun Sep 27, 2009 9:34 pm

Well, as nice as the minimum wage thing seems, I'm vehemently against it.

Micky D's ain't the only place that pays minimum wage. A lot of peripheral industries pay minimum wage too, like food processing plants.

High schoolers and borderhoppers aren't the only ones filling those jobs out. In food processing plants and construction agencies (The reliable ones), family men work there, as well as college students.

We need that money, and cutting the minimum wage isn't going to bring costs down enough for us.

Second:
No to legalizing marijuana.
NT says it will help law enforcement. I have a better solution.
There is a heroin vaccine out there that will cause your body to attack the active ingredients in heroin. You don't get high, you get sick.

Seems like a similar system would work for marijuana. I'm not saying we need to vaccinate everybody, just the repeat offenders.

Second, GMOs allow scientists to eliminate certain chemicals from plants.
I'd like to know how easy it would be to eliminate the active ingredients in marijuana from the hemp plant. Then, our farmers could grow that wonderful plant and use it for what it needs to be used for: Paper and linseed oil.
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Post by KristallNacht on Sun Sep 27, 2009 10:08 pm

rasq, they already have industrial hemp.

you can't get high off of it, and it is still illegal to grow in the united states.


and everyone can agree that heroin is inherently bad for you, you'd be hard pressed to really get overwhelming support for the belief that marijuana is more harm than good.

rasq, dropping minimum wage reduces the costs of EVERYTHING. besides, places like food processing plants would still stay above the lowest paid jobs because people are less likely to want to do them.
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Post by Ukurse on Sun Sep 27, 2009 11:06 pm

Rotaretilbo wrote:
KristallNacht wrote:1. Legalize Marijuana

The only change I'd note here would be to have a tax on Marijuana. Personally, I'm against it, because Marijuana, side effects aside, has like twice as much tar as regular cigarettes, but if we do legalize it, we might as well charge loads for it, help pay off the deficit.
I was thinking a long these lines too.
I always thought that Cigarettes were good for tax, until I heard on the news that the amount of tax money that is received via Cigarettes is less than the amount that is used in health care for smokers.
And Marijuana would pretty much just be worse.
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Post by KristallNacht on Sun Sep 27, 2009 11:11 pm

Ukurse wrote:
And Marijuana would pretty much just be worse.

how?

Marijuana users don't need health care. They have marijuana which is shown to be useful in treatment of over 200 different medical conditions.

ntm Marijuana doesn't cause long cancer, kill brain cells, or do any harm to the body. Unlike cigarettes and alcohol.



Here's some statistics for you.

Tylenol kills more people EACH DAY than Marijuana has EVER KILLED in all of recorded history.
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