Philosophical Discussion Thread

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Post by tiny tim on Sun Aug 09, 2009 12:41 pm

Ziggy wrote:Okay, bugger. I had written an entire rebuttal to your comment then clicked the Back button on my mouse.

Have a read here: http://www.google.com.au/search?q=hard+determinism&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&client=firefox-a

That'll give you an idea, and a clearer summary of what I have been trying to say.

Do you know what you have just done!?!?!?! YOU HAVE TRIGGERED ONE OR ROT'S GREAT MULTI-QUOTES OF DOOM! He will spend the rest of the day reading that and rereadding it and then quote every spot in it disproving it all! Everyone, except Ziggy, in the shelter NAO!

*enters mega multi-quote fallout shelter*

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Post by Zaki90 on Sun Aug 09, 2009 1:16 pm

Ziggy wrote:Okay, bugger. I had written an entire rebuttal to your comment then clicked the Back button on my mouse.

Have a read here: http://www.google.com.au/search?q=hard+determinism&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&client=firefox-a

That'll give you an idea, and a clearer summary of what I have been trying to say.

You are screwed now. Never ever do that. You should fear the might of his uber muliquotes. I still remember the How to Implement the Flood one that took me 2 hours to read.

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Post by tiny tim on Sun Aug 09, 2009 1:17 pm

Zaki! Get in the shelter!

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Post by Rotaretilbo on Sun Aug 09, 2009 1:42 pm

If we're going to argue that free will does not exist simply because of time, then I shall whip out String theory, bitches. For while time is the fourth dimension, chance is the fifth and choice is the sixth. While you or I may perceive time as a straight line, that is simply because, as three-dimensional beings, we are incapable of perceiving dimensions above time. Simply put, I want you to imagine the first three dimensions: width, length, and height. Now, when you put those all together, you get space. So a 3D area is space. Now, the next three dimensions are similar. When you put time, chance, and choice together, you get another 3D area, which I will refer to as life for lack of a better word.

So, in a way, there is no free will, because every possibility that could ever happen from our starting conditions is just a point in a 6D graph. However, what we experience is determined by free will. While there are other points on the 6D graph, infinitely so, the only true reality is the one we experience, and for that to be so, free will must exist in order for us to affect things on the sixth dimension: choice. Theoretically speaking, if we were to bend the sixth dimension through the seventh, we could actually ourselves go to an alternate reality in which things have changed. However, this dimension would only exist for as long as we were there, because it is not the true reality.

That aside, and back to determinism, I thought of a few other inconsistencies. Memory loss. Subconsciously, we never lose any of our memories, but consciously, we do. Therefore, how can memory loss affect our judgement and actions if we decide everything subconsciously?

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Post by tiny tim on Sun Aug 09, 2009 1:50 pm

No multi-quote? THANK YOU GREAT ROTARETILBO!

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Post by Rotaretilbo on Sun Aug 09, 2009 1:52 pm

What was I going to multiquote? A google search?

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Post by tiny tim on Sun Aug 09, 2009 1:55 pm

the wikipedia page.

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Post by Zaki90 on Sun Aug 09, 2009 1:59 pm

We are saved!

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Post by Kasrkin Seath on Sun Aug 09, 2009 2:04 pm

Time is more of a concept itself to begin with...

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[00:17:22] @ KrAzY : new law.
[00:17:28] @ KrAzY : the law can now be a person.
[00:17:28] @ XNate02 : The Law, can only be The Law.
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Post by kslidz on Sun Aug 09, 2009 7:35 pm

Rotaretilbo wrote:If we're going to argue that free will does not exist simply because of time, then I shall whip out String theory, bitches. For while time is the fourth dimension, chance is the fifth and choice is the sixth. While you or I may perceive time as a straight line, that is simply because, as three-dimensional beings, we are incapable of perceiving dimensions above time. Simply put, I want you to imagine the first three dimensions: width, length, and height. Now, when you put those all together, you get space. So a 3D area is space. Now, the next three dimensions are similar. When you put time, chance, and choice together, you get another 3D area, which I will refer to as life for lack of a better word.

So, in a way, there is no free will, because every possibility that could ever happen from our starting conditions is just a point in a 6D graph. However, what we experience is determined by free will. While there are other points on the 6D graph, infinitely so, the only true reality is the one we experience, and for that to be so, free will must exist in order for us to affect things on the sixth dimension: choice. Theoretically speaking, if we were to bend the sixth dimension through the seventh, we could actually ourselves go to an alternate reality in which things have changed. However, this dimension would only exist for as long as we were there, because it is not the true reality.

That aside, and back to determinism, I thought of a few other inconsistencies. Memory loss. Subconsciously, we never lose any of our memories, but consciously, we do. Therefore, how can memory loss affect our judgement and actions if we decide everything subconsciously?

agian rot

even in the string theory ( i personally believe to be bullshit) there are infinite lines and parallel universes that are happening and while there are an infinite amount of possibilities of different universes we could be in
we arent in multiple universes and we do not cross into them
so
the path we are on is complete and wont change even if there are an infinite amounts of universes around us
we are in one universe that universes time is determined by the very nature of time

now on to why i think the string theory is shit
simply and not logically (although not illogically) I believe God exists and has A pan not infinite ones

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Post by Kasrkin Seath on Sun Aug 09, 2009 8:38 pm

that made no sense kslidz

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[00:17:22] @ KrAzY : new law.
[00:17:28] @ KrAzY : the law can now be a person.
[00:17:28] @ XNate02 : The Law, can only be The Law.
[00:17:32] @ Gauz : I'd kick everyone....
[00:17:37] @ KrAzY : and that person is seath
[00:17:39] @ kasrkin seath : YES
------------------------------------------
[02:22:43] @ KrAzY : the reason we all come to TCF is because Seath is too Lord Pheonix damn sexy to stop.
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Post by Gauz on Sun Aug 09, 2009 8:55 pm

Kasrkin Seath wrote:that made no sense kslidz
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Post by kslidz on Sun Aug 09, 2009 9:13 pm

prove one part either illogical or wrong

thats the worst argument ever


"that made no sense"

really come up with something

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Post by Angatar on Sun Aug 09, 2009 9:39 pm

God has a pan? What the hell does he need that for? Are we going to be made into pancakes?

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Post by Zaki90 on Sun Aug 09, 2009 9:45 pm

Angatar wrote:God has a pan? What the hell does he need that for? Are we going to be made into pancakes?

God is a cannibal isn't he.

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Post by tiny tim on Sun Aug 09, 2009 9:46 pm

This conversation is making me glad I am agnostic.

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Post by Gauz on Sun Aug 09, 2009 10:15 pm

What version of determenism are we focusing on? The determenism I read was based more on external forces determening your future, rather your subconci. I really didn't read much on your subconcious mind controlling your actions.
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Post by Ziggy on Sun Aug 09, 2009 10:21 pm

New topic:

What is the meaning of life?
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Post by Gauz on Sun Aug 09, 2009 10:25 pm

The meaning of life for a individual or the purpose life even exists?
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Post by tiny tim on Sun Aug 09, 2009 10:26 pm

The purpose of life is the propagation of the species.

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Post by Angatar on Sun Aug 09, 2009 10:27 pm

To die.

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Post by BBJynne on Sun Aug 09, 2009 10:29 pm

Angatar wrote:To die.

Alone, in the rain

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Post by Angatar on Sun Aug 09, 2009 10:30 pm

BBJynne wrote:
Angatar wrote:To die.

Alone, in the rain
Better yet, alone in a dumpster.

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Post by BBJynne on Sun Aug 09, 2009 10:31 pm

But that's kinda a success story. Dying in the rain is depressing.

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Post by Angatar on Sun Aug 09, 2009 10:33 pm

It's raining while you're in the dumpster.

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