Greatest Conquerer in History

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Post by JumpingJet on Sun Jun 14, 2009 3:14 am

So yeh, why do people not agree with me saying Ceasar?

Just tell me why you dont agree and i will have a come back.

Come one then, bring 'em on.

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Post by TNine on Sun Jun 14, 2009 8:17 am

JumpingJet wrote:So yeh, why do people not agree with me saying Ceasar?

Just tell me why you dont agree and i will have a come back.

Come one then, bring 'em on.

Razz
Ceasar was a fantastic conquerer, he was, however, bested by Genghis.
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Post by JumpingJet on Sun Jun 14, 2009 9:18 am

Genghis maybe took more land but who killed an army or 1,000,000 Barbarians with a meer 5,000 Legionairs?

Plus Genghis just took land, he left it dead and with no goverment in place, Ceasar, took land and made it sustainable.
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Post by TNine on Sun Jun 14, 2009 1:09 pm

JumpingJet wrote:Genghis maybe took more land but who killed an army or 1,000,000 Barbarians with a meer 5,000 Legionairs?

Plus Genghis just took land, he left it dead and with no goverment in place, Ceasar, took land and made it sustainable.
Barbarians? That's like saying Hitlers the best leaders cause he killed millions of jews with only a few thousand soldiers. Barbarians didn't really know to fight, and the Legionairs were trained for years.

Now Genghis was able to force his way through a small gap in the mountains against an enemy with superior position and numbers. Not easy, though he can be credited with his superb flanking maneuver over supposedly impassable mountains.
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Post by Ringleader on Sun Jun 14, 2009 1:14 pm

Alexander the Great was better then Ceaser I think, but Khan's empire was a lot bigger.
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Post by Zaki90 on Sun Jun 14, 2009 10:53 pm

I think we need a criteria to base this.

1. How much land conquered?

2. What enemies?


3. Background?


4. Size of military?


5.Time


And if you want to calcuate "points":

1. How much land conquered?
( Subtract land from before power and after power, 1 for each 10 thousand)
3837081 sq miles

2. What enemies?
( Hard= 2 plus/ Medium= 1 plus/ Easy=0 plus)

3. Background?
( Economic, Millitary, enemies keeping a close eye, Each count as 1 Plus Sign)

4. Size of military?
(Each thousand troops count as 1)

5.Time

( How many years did it take to achieve the peak of conquered land and subtract that by the years in power. Multiply the time that land was held and add it)

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Post by Felix on Mon Jun 15, 2009 6:15 am

Zaki90 wrote:I think we need a criteria to base this.

1. How much land conquered?

2. What enemies?


3. Background?


4. Size of military?


5.Time


And if you want to calcuate "points":

1. How much land conquered?
( Subtract land from before power and after power, 1 for each 10 thousand)
3837081 sq miles

2. What enemies?
( Hard= 2 plus/ Medium= 1 plus/ Easy=0 plus)

3. Background?
( Economic, Millitary, enemies keeping a close eye, Each count as 1 Plus Sign)

4. Size of military?
(Each thousand troops count as 1)

5.Time

( How many years did it take to achieve the peak of conquered land and subtract that by the years in power. Multiply the time that land was held and add it)

Hmmm... there is math involved in this, so it's a bad idea.
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Post by JumpingJet on Mon Jun 15, 2009 8:27 am

Zaki90 wrote:I think we need a criteria to base this.

1. How much land conquered?

2. What enemies?


3. Background?


4. Size of military?


5.Time


And if you want to calcuate "points":

1. How much land conquered?
( Subtract land from before power and after power, 1 for each 10 thousand)
3837081 sq miles

2. What enemies?
( Hard= 2 plus/ Medium= 1 plus/ Easy=0 plus)

3. Background?
( Economic, Millitary, enemies keeping a close eye, Each count as 1 Plus Sign)

4. Size of military?
(Each thousand troops count as 1)

5.Time

( How many years did it take to achieve the peak of conquered land and subtract that by the years in power. Multiply the time that land was held and add it)

But, what about goverments set in place? Society?

Its not realy conquering if you just take land becuse then you just have a patch of grassland and buildings
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Post by Zaki90 on Mon Jun 15, 2009 2:40 pm

JumpingJet wrote:

But, what about goverments set in place? Society?

Its not realy conquering if you just take land becuse then you just have a patch of grassland and buildings

Goverments and society count as background.

Land conquered. What is a conquerer if he has not conquered land?
With land comes people, power, and economy. Without land we have almost nothing.

Would space count as land nowadays?

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Post by TNine on Wed Jun 17, 2009 6:24 pm

This is a systematic argument, not a mathmatical equation.

No points.
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Post by BBJynne on Wed Jun 17, 2009 8:31 pm

JumpingJet wrote:So yeh, why do people not agree with me saying Ceasar?

Just tell me why you dont agree and i will have a come back.

Come one then, bring 'em on.

Razz

Ceasar underestimated the usefulness and threats of cavalry



he still kicked ass, but you wanted 1 reason

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Post by TNine on Thu Jun 18, 2009 4:23 pm

BBJynne wrote:
JumpingJet wrote:So yeh, why do people not agree with me saying Ceasar?

Just tell me why you dont agree and i will have a come back.

Come one then, bring 'em on.

Razz

Ceasar underestimated the usefulness and threats of cavalry



he still kicked ass, but you wanted 1 reason
In his warfare they weren't very useful. His army was based around a formation, a wall, calvalry wasn't good for that. Enemy calvary would be stopped by a shield wall, since enemy horses would not charge into a shield wall anymore than a brick wall.
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Post by Kislany on Thu Jun 18, 2009 4:45 pm

my vote still stands
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Post by Cheese on Thu Jun 18, 2009 5:15 pm

Bacteria, by any criteria.

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Post by TNine on Thu Jun 18, 2009 5:19 pm

Cheese wrote:Bacteria, by any criteria.
They haven't ever conquered. Killed, maybe, but they cannot take or hold land.
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Post by Cheese on Thu Jun 18, 2009 5:20 pm

TNine wrote:
Cheese wrote:Bacteria, by any criteria.
They haven't ever conquered. Killed, maybe, but they cannot take or hold land.

They hold all the land. And if they were ever vanquished from it, then everything else would die as well. That's what I mean - they are freaking everywhere. And without them, there could be nothing else still alive.

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Post by TNine on Thu Jun 18, 2009 5:27 pm

Cheese wrote:
TNine wrote:
Cheese wrote:Bacteria, by any criteria.
They haven't ever conquered. Killed, maybe, but they cannot take or hold land.

They hold all the land. And if they were ever vanquished from it, then everything else would die as well. That's what I mean - they are freaking everywhere. And without them, there could be nothing else still alive.
That doesn't make them conquerers.
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Post by Cheese on Thu Jun 18, 2009 5:36 pm

Okey dokey. Figured this might happen.

More causalities in the history of war due to infection. But now we're just arguing semantics.

It depends whether you class conquering as an action of will or the mere act itself. Certainly bacteria possesses a mastery over us - we're still fighting against diseases (and I believe conquer a disease was one of the dictionaries terms)

Look at all these names on the list - every one of them. Whether they died of infection, wounds, famine whatever - they were all conquered by the bacteria that broke them down to nitrates.

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Post by TNine on Thu Jun 18, 2009 6:31 pm

Cheese wrote:Okey dokey. Figured this might happen.

More causalities in the history of war due to infection. But now we're just arguing semantics.

It depends whether you class conquering as an action of will or the mere act itself. Certainly bacteria possesses a mastery over us - we're still fighting against diseases (and I believe conquer a disease was one of the dictionaries terms)

Look at all these names on the list - every one of them. Whether they died of infection, wounds, famine whatever - they were all conquered by the bacteria that broke them down to nitrates.
Conquering isn't killing.
I win.

Sorry, but to conquer is essentially to take control or power over, or to overcome something. Bacteria can do neither.
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Post by Cheese on Thu Jun 18, 2009 6:49 pm

Announcing 'I win' rarely helps your case. There's no such thing as a last say on the internet.

You're still thinking large scale. Think small scale but for everything.

1. to acquire by force of arms; win in war: to conquer a foreign land.
2. to overcome by force; subdue: to conquer an enemy.
3. to gain, win, or obtain by effort, personal appeal, etc.: conquer the hearts of his audience.
4. to gain a victory over; surmount; master; overcome: to conquer disease and poverty; to conquer one's fear.

Your body fights and fights with this until eventually entropy runs its course and your system goes the way of worm food. Bacteria has acquired this by force of arms... though bacterial arms. Overcome by force. Gained through effort, and surmounted etc.

Conquering can be killing when 'the land' you fight for is a body to chow on.

Again, we're arguing semantics. Which to be fair I started - so I shouldn't really complain.

This is the case for everything in the world everywhere.

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Post by Gold Spartan on Thu Jun 18, 2009 7:05 pm

I'd like to clear up a few points, Temuchin DID NOT fight the Muslim empire, his grandson fought them when the Mongols became muslim. The Egyptian Pharoah Thumoes(sp) won more battles than even Naploeon did. done with that. Scipio, Alexander the Great, Philip of Macedon, Cyrus the Great, Temuchin, Saladin, and Peter the Great have to be the greatest conquerors.
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Post by Nocbl2 on Thu Jun 18, 2009 7:27 pm

I wish to argue Cheese's point. Something as small as bacteria can destroy an entire race. Such as Napoleon's battle with winter; frostbite is the result of a certain infection, thereby 'using force to overcome' Napoleon's army. Although, really, they aren't quote 'general' conquerers, but rather a special case. Point reached.
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Post by Cheese on Thu Jun 18, 2009 7:34 pm

Exactly.

With 'Greatest Conqueror in History = Caesar or someone' this example doesn't really work very well. If you change the argument to 'Greatest Conqueror in History = Mankind' then you get a better idea.

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Post by TNine on Thu Jun 18, 2009 8:12 pm

Gold Spartan5 wrote:I'd like to clear up a few points, Temuchin DID NOT fight the Muslim empire, his grandson fought them when the Mongols became muslim.
Source?
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Post by Ringleader on Fri Jun 19, 2009 10:40 am

probably Wikipedia.

Greatest conqueror = Genghis Khan
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