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Post by capn qwerty on Wed May 20, 2009 7:14 am

Someone still had to put time and effort into making the content.
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Post by Cheese on Wed May 20, 2009 7:20 am

Yeah so instead of the CD making company, you're just directly ripping off the content producers. Much better.

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Post by KristallNacht on Wed May 20, 2009 8:51 am

capn qwerty wrote:content.

but, the content is defined by the purchase.

but this thread isn't a piracy discussion thread, its a pirate JOURNAL =d
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Post by Cheese on Wed May 20, 2009 8:54 am

Pretty much every new TV show I watched has been streamed. Does that count? I mean it takes a goddamn year to get broadcast in the UK anyway.

Family Guy, American Dad, South Park, Simpsons, Reaper, Lost, Mythbusters, My Name is Earl, Scrubs. I think that's it for American TV I watch. The rest I watch on the BBC site.

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Post by Rasq'uire'laskar on Wed May 20, 2009 5:32 pm

KristallNacht wrote:
TNine wrote:So what makes this different from shoplifting a CD again?

oh, the fact a CD actually cost someone to harvest those resources, form them into a cd/case/booklet, ship it, store it, ship it, store, and attempt to sell it.

pirated stuff cost nothing =D
A CD costs nothing to make. Shipping, handling, printing, and advertisement hardly costs more than 7 dollars a CD.

The rest goes to the artist (Because he and his family have to eat... and they publish one album a year, tops) the songwriters, the technicians, buying the equipment (Instruments and recording)...

All of these invisible little people who nonetheless need to eat, drink, and shelter themselves.
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Post by KristallNacht on Wed May 20, 2009 6:10 pm

Rasq'uire'laskar wrote:
The rest goes to the artist (Because he and his family have to eat

you are aware its mostly pennies to the album that each artist actually gets after the record industry strips them of everything, right?

If i knew the money would go straight (even at 20%) to the artist, I would buy CDs.

The problem is, the record company continues to make it harder and harder to trust them. I don't want my money feeding a company that whether i pirate or not, treats me as a criminal, when in reality they're the true criminals.

I don't pirate for personal gain, yet the record industry has abused copyright law to leech off the real content creators for years. They're the true criminals.


that also being said, most of those artists i pirate have made it big anyway. I do purchase CDs straight from bands that actually need the support, and get the albums signed.
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Post by TNine on Wed May 20, 2009 8:35 pm

KristallNacht wrote:
Rasq'uire'laskar wrote:
The rest goes to the artist (Because he and his family have to eat

you are aware its mostly pennies to the album that each artist actually gets after the record industry strips them of everything, right?

If i knew the money would go straight (even at 20%) to the artist, I would buy CDs.

The problem is, the record company continues to make it harder and harder to trust them. I don't want my money feeding a company that whether i pirate or not, treats me as a criminal, when in reality they're the true criminals.

I don't pirate for personal gain, yet the record industry has abused copyright law to leech off the real content creators for years. They're the true criminals.


that also being said, most of those artists i pirate have made it big anyway. I do purchase CDs straight from bands that actually need the support, and get the albums signed.
I would have had more respect for you if you pointed out that most music artists are extremely rich.

As it is, much of what the company makes goes to their employees, who can be much poorer than an artist. And there still is little difference between shoplifting a CD and pirating an album.
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Post by Lord Pheonix on Wed May 20, 2009 9:04 pm

Not sure if its been mentioned(as I don't read because of not giving a damn) but the bigger bands make a shit ton of money from tours alone which they are constantly doing.

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Post by KristallNacht on Wed May 20, 2009 10:42 pm

TNine wrote:
KristallNacht wrote:most of those artists i pirate have made it big anyway
I would have had more respect for you if you pointed out that most music artists are extremely rich.

i did, see?




Information wants to be free. I'm not stealing physical resources, merely copying information for its own good.
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Post by Ukurse on Thu May 21, 2009 12:14 am

KristallNacht wrote:
TNine wrote:most of those artists i pirate have made it big anyway
I would have had more respect for you if you pointed out that most music artists are extremely rich.

A lot of popular Bands can do a single concept, and then they are set for life.
And considering they usually do multiple concerts I don't think they give a shit about 20 bucks.

And if I Pirate the CD I'm at least advertising them, and then making it more likely for them to make money from CD or concerts latter. And I might even even go to the concert, which gives then more money back anyway. If I don't Pirate it then they still don't get any money from me, minus the advertising, so I think I'm helping the artist in a way.

So anyway, If you pirate or not it isn't going to matter, if you pirate you might strip the Artist from a amount of money that, unlike us, they take for granted. And if you don't pirate then still no body will care, there will still millions of people that will be pirating and If you stop they arn't magicly all going to stop too, you stopping isn't going to make any difference whatsoever TBH.
Well besides the fact that you are just making yourself less happy, And you don't want to be sad face.
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Post by KristallNacht on Thu May 21, 2009 12:15 am

Honestly, even the facts are misconstrued by the RIAA.

While CD sales may be going down, concert sales have skyrocketed.
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Post by Ukurse on Thu May 21, 2009 12:23 am

KristallNacht wrote:Honestly, even the facts are misconstrued by the RIAA.

While CD sales may be going down, concert sales have skyrocketed.
I think that Artist should embarrasses the idea of distributing there CDs over the internet.
Maybe they could make a compromise?..
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Post by TNine on Thu May 21, 2009 1:02 pm

KristallNacht wrote:Information wants to be free. I'm not stealing physical resources, merely copying information for its own good.
...what?

Information is not a sentinent, self-conscious being. It is something that is found out through whatever means.

This isn't even information, it's sound. If you want it, you pay for it, as that's how the people that made the sound, which are sentinent, self-conscious beings, make their way in life.
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Post by TNine on Thu May 21, 2009 1:05 pm

Ukurse wrote:
KristallNacht wrote:
TNine wrote:most of those artists i pirate have made it big anyway
I would have had more respect for you if you pointed out that most music artists are extremely rich.

A lot of popular Bands can do a single concept, and then they are set for life.
And considering they usually do multiple concerts I don't think they give a shit about 20 bucks.

And if I Pirate the CD I'm at least advertising them, and then making it more likely for them to make money from CD or concerts latter. And I might even even go to the concert, which gives then more money back anyway. If I don't Pirate it then they still don't get any money from me, minus the advertising, so I think I'm helping the artist in a way.

So anyway, If you pirate or not it isn't going to matter, if you pirate you might strip the Artist from a amount of money that, unlike us, they take for granted. And if you don't pirate then still no body will care, there will still millions of people that will be pirating and If you stop they arn't magicly all going to stop too, you stopping isn't going to make any difference whatsoever TBH.
Well besides the fact that you are just making yourself less happy, And you don't want to be sad face.
This concept leads to many of the worlds problems going unsolved. Pollution, donations (or lack there of), pirating, stealing, fraud. Most notably pollution.

If everyone would just stop, then there, the problem goes away. The only way you can take a step towards that is by stopping yourself, and making others stop. If you don't stop (or start in this case), then you are making the problem worse.
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Post by Toaster on Thu May 21, 2009 4:11 pm

One vote doesn't make a difference... so why doesn't everyone just stop voting?

We need to do what is right so as to uphold our purpose in society.

NT, the problem with your argument, when it comes to 'information wanting to be free,' is that the 'information' contained on a licensed game disc cost millions of dollars to produce. If you want good games to continue coming out, then you need to feed the machine. That's how it works. They are in it for profit, and if that profit goes away, they'll realize that, as much as they may love producing games, or movies, it's just not a practical thing to waste your time doing.

Honestly, it's as if you think we are living in Soviet Russia. This is not Communism. This is Capitalism. In capitalism, profit drives competition, which drives advancement. Money is the reason we are no longer playing pong, and instead enjoying the majesty of games like Halo, or Mass Effect.
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Post by Rasq'uire'laskar on Thu May 21, 2009 5:45 pm

KristallNacht wrote:
Information wants to be free. I'm not stealing physical resources, merely copying information for its own good.
*checks.
Oh, that's right, you're from California.

BE AT ONE WITH GAIA, BROTHER! LET US SPREAD FREE LOVE, FREE PEACE, AND HAPPINESS THROUGHOUT THE LAND! SAY NO TO RESPONSIBILITY AND ACCOUNTABILITY, BROTHA! THEY ARE JUST EVIL CONSTRUCTS OF THE EVIL GENERALS, CAPITALISTS, AND RECORD COMPANY EXECUTIVES OF THE WORLD!

I thought that was funny, actually. The idea that information is a sentient being that WANTS to be free, and is not merely another form of currency.

Ukurse wrote:
And if I Pirate the CD I'm at least advertising them, and then making it more likely for them to make money from CD or concerts latter.
No, not really. You just promote pirating.

Ukurse wrote:And I might even even go to the concert, which gives then more money back anyway. If I don't Pirate it then they still don't get any money from me, minus the advertising, so I think I'm helping the artist in a way.
So, if you couldn't pirate the music, you wouldn't buy it? Even at iTunes prices?

Ukurse wrote:And if you don't pirate then still no body will care, there will still millions of people that will be pirating and If you stop they arn't magicly all going to stop too, you stopping isn't going to make any difference whatsoever TBH.
So, because everybody else is doing it, it's alright?
I'm going to fly to New York and kill somebody. Even if I don't, it isn't going to stop everybody else from killing people.
Better, yet, I'll commit identity theft. Everybody else is doing it, and it isn't going to do major damage to the victim. Just because I steal twenty thousand dollars doesn't mean they'll end up in the streets.
Not good enough? OK, I'll go break into somebody's house and steal their HDTV. It's only 5000 dollars, and everybody else is doing it.
But if I really didn't want to get caught, I guess I could go smash a car window. Cheap to repair, and it happens... a lot.

Do you see how completely STUPID that argument is? It's not a belief, it's an excuse!
It is STILL WRONG. You can't change the world without taking a few steps yourself.

Ukurse wrote:Well besides the fact that you are just making yourself less happy, And you don't want to be sad face.
Used to be, we had this old gas oven. We replaced it eventually, and then we bought an electric range. When I was thirteen, I realized that I could turn on the gas for a few seconds, and then light it. Made a satisfying thump that would bang the door open.

One day, I guess I was sixteen, I saw this alley cat hanging around. My parents were always trying to get rid of it, but it was always coming back to root through the trash. So I snuck up on it, caught it by the tail, and took it inside. I threw it in the oven, and turned the gas up to "250 degrees"... and pushed the 'light' button.

I did that several times, because the first thump didn't kill it. I had to do it fast, because it was scratching and hissing and making all this noise, and I was afraid of getting caught. I knew it was wrong on some level, maybe, but it made me....

Happy face.
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Post by KristallNacht on Thu May 21, 2009 9:24 pm

Rasq'uire'laskar wrote:
So, if you couldn't pirate the music, you wouldn't buy it? Even at iTunes prices?

honestly, i wouldn't. and you say that as if Itunes prices are cheap.
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Post by Toaster on Thu May 21, 2009 10:03 pm

KristallNacht wrote:
Rasq'uire'laskar wrote:
So, if you couldn't pirate the music, you wouldn't buy it? Even at iTunes prices?

honestly, i wouldn't. and you say that as if Itunes prices are cheap.

So if piracy was not available to you... you would live your life without music? I doubt that.
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Post by Ukurse on Fri May 22, 2009 2:01 am

Rasq'uire'laskar wrote:
Ukurse wrote:
And if I Pirate the CD I'm at least advertising them, and then making it more likely for them to make money from CD or concerts latter.
No, not really. You just promote pirating.
No, not really. The majority of people are like me and if they didn't pirate the songs they probably wouldn't bother buying it. So even if I promote pirating I have a higher rate of them buying it because if I tell my friend.
Well, your theory implies that all music advertising will encourage pirating then, because I don't tell any body about pirating because the conversation

Rasq'uire'laskar wrote:
Ukurse wrote:And I might even even go to the concert, which gives then more money back anyway. If I don't Pirate it then they still don't get any money from me, minus the advertising, so I think I'm helping the artist in a way.
So, if you couldn't pirate the music, you wouldn't buy it? Even at iTunes prices?
It is just to much trouble as I don't have a credit card, and when I could just pirate with no trouble.

Rasq'uire'laskar wrote:
Ukurse wrote:And if you don't pirate then still no body will care, there will still millions of people that will be pirating and If you stop they arn't magicly all going to stop too, you stopping isn't going to make any difference whatsoever TBH.
So, because everybody else is doing it, it's alright?
I'm going to fly to New York and kill somebody. Even if I don't, it isn't going to stop everybody else from killing people.
Better, yet, I'll commit identity theft. Everybody else is doing it, and it isn't going to do major damage to the victim. Just because I steal twenty thousand dollars doesn't mean they'll end up in the streets.
Not good enough? OK, I'll go break into somebody's house and steal their HDTV. It's only 5000 dollars, and everybody else is doing it.
But if I really didn't want to get caught, I guess I could go smash a car window. Cheap to repair, and it happens... a lot.
Well, it isn't the same as a 5,000 dollar TV will make a much bigger impact on that persons life than not giving a already rich artist $20. Although I know it is the principle of the matter, but they would be none the wise weather you pirated it or bought it.

Rasq'uire'laskar wrote:
Do you see how completely STUPID that argument is? It's not a belief, it's an excuse!
It is STILL WRONG. You can't change the world without taking a few steps yourself.
To change the world your steps don't matter, just like how voting is pintless, if you vote people will still vote or not. "Well if everybody thought that then there would be no one who votes" Well, once again if you u disregard this people will still vote. No matter how hard you try you will never make a impact on things like that unless you become some really well know dude.
Rasq'uire'laskar wrote:
Ukurse wrote:Well besides the fact that you are just making yourself less happy, And you don't want to be sad face.
Used to be, we had this old gas oven. We replaced it eventually, and then we bought an electric range. When I was thirteen, I realized that I could turn on the gas for a few seconds, and then light it. Made a satisfying thump that would bang the door open.

One day, I guess I was sixteen, I saw this alley cat hanging around. My parents were always trying to get rid of it, but it was always coming back to root through the trash. So I snuck up on it, caught it by the tail, and took it inside. I threw it in the oven, and turned the gas up to "250 degrees"... and pushed the 'light' button.

I did that several times, because the first thump didn't kill it. I had to do it fast, because it was scratching and hissing and making all this noise, and I was afraid of getting caught. I knew it was wrong on some level, maybe, but it made me....

Happy face.[/quote]
Well, I would argue this point but I would just be repeatig myself, so instead I decided to make a funny lame joke.
Sound like you wern't cooking it right.
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Post by Toaster on Fri May 22, 2009 4:40 am

Ukurse wrote:Well, it isn't the same as a 5,000 dollar TV will make a much bigger impact on that persons life than not giving a already rich artist $20.

I don't understand this. If you LIKE their music, why wouldn't you be willing to make them more money? I can understand being annoyed that snoop dog made millions for saying 'drop it like it's hot' into a microphone, but the music YOU are buying, is music YOU like.

Why is it that you feel the artists that entertain you do not deserve fortune?
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Post by R!zZle BiZzl£ on Fri May 22, 2009 9:50 am

i can see where you are all coming from, by saying everyone pirating is not good, and should not promote it. The fact is: i wont stop, till we have a national non pirate day. why should we stop? its not like we've murdered, or ruined the singers life... so... ShutUp
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Post by Rasq'uire'laskar on Fri May 22, 2009 2:18 pm

Ukurse wrote:
Rasq'uire'laskar wrote:
Ukurse wrote:
And if I Pirate the CD I'm at least advertising them, and then making it more likely for them to make money from CD or concerts latter.
No, not really. You just promote pirating.
No, not really. The majority of people are like me and if they didn't pirate the songs they probably wouldn't bother buying it.
So, if you couldn't get Eminem, System of a Down, or whatever by pirating, you wouldn't buy it? Are you saying that you ONLY pirate music you wouldn't buy? If you see a song that you REALLY like, you'll go out to Hastings and buy it?

Ukurse wrote:So even if I promote pirating I have a higher rate of them buying it because if I tell my friend.
What?
Ehm, Se habla Espanol? Sprechen Sie Deutsch?

Ukurse wrote:Well, your theory implies that all music advertising will encourage pirating then, because I don't tell any body about pirating because the conversation
Hmm... seems like you wandered into thought in that sentence. I do that sometimes, but not online.

Ukurse wrote:
Rasq'uire'laskar wrote:
Ukurse wrote:And I might even even go to the concert, which gives then more money back anyway. If I don't Pirate it then they still don't get any money from me, minus the advertising, so I think I'm helping the artist in a way.
So, if you couldn't pirate the music, you wouldn't buy it? Even at iTunes prices?
It is just to much trouble as I don't have a credit card, and when I could just pirate with no trouble.
That still doesn't make it right. iTunes has easy payment options and standardized content.I set up a deal with my parents before I had a debit card, where I would pre-select the music, use their card, and pay them back.

Ukurse wrote:
Well, it isn't the same as a 5,000 dollar TV will make a much bigger impact on that persons life than not giving a already rich artist $20. Although I know it is the principle of the matter, but they would be none the wise weather you pirated it or bought it.
Most identity theft victims are completely unaware that it is happening. And where do you draw the line on "Impact's a person's life"?

Taking a $20 from Bill Gate's mailbox may be "Inconsequential" and still wrong, but if a hundred thousand people are stealing 20$ from his bank account, then that is inconsequential to YOU, but very consequential to him.

Ukurse wrote:
Rasq'uire'laskar wrote:
Do you see how completely STUPID that argument is? It's not a belief, it's an excuse!
It is STILL WRONG. You can't change the world without taking a few steps yourself.
To change the world your steps don't matter, just like how voting is pintless, if you vote people will still vote or not. "Well if everybody thought that then there would be no one who votes" Well, once again if you u disregard this people will still vote. No matter how hard you try you will never make a impact on things like that unless you become some really well know dude.
Actually, the idea that your vote doesn't matter has affected American Politics more than any other factor. It's why Clinton won the Presidency in 1992 and 1996.
Now, how many songs have you downloaded? How many will you download during your entire career? One hundred? Two hundred? Assuming an average of fifteen songs per CD, you've stiffed the artist one hundred bucks.

But you still haven't stated how "Everyone's doing it" negates the fact that piracy is stealing.
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Post by Ukurse on Sat May 23, 2009 5:22 am

Weather I was to vote on that election it wouldn't change the minds of the others, they would still have voted or not, and my one vote wouldn't make a difference at all.
And I understand how it is the Artist work and it is stealing, but I just think that it is a big deal for me to be stealing for reasons I have already stated. Me pirating or not will make not difference like voting on election.
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Post by TNine on Sat May 23, 2009 10:05 am

Ukurse wrote:Weather I was to vote on that election it wouldn't change the minds of the others, they would still have voted or not, and my one vote wouldn't make a difference at all.
And I understand how it is the Artist work and it is stealing, but I just think that it is a big deal for me to be stealing for reasons I have already stated. Me pirating or not will make not difference like voting on election.
If you don't stop, nobody will stop. Besides, you will steal a shitload of money in your career.
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Post by KristallNacht on Sun May 24, 2009 8:13 pm

ReconToaster wrote:

I don't understand this. If you LIKE their music, why wouldn't you be willing to make them more money?

oh, the ignorance.

my problem isn't with helping pay the artists, my problem is with helping pay the people leeching off the artists (the record industry)


and Rasq, i don't think he means he pirates music he doesn't like, i think its more that he just won't pay for it period.
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