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Post by Toaster on Sat May 30, 2009 7:48 pm

KristallNacht wrote:
Besides, if its on youtube, i'd use zamzar to rip the audio, which, in fact, is perfectly legal. =P so still no money provided to the companies. Your argument fail.

Except... my argument wasn't that you should rip the music off of youtube instead. My argument was that maybe you should have looked up the album on youtube, listened to it, and then bought it off of Amazon or something.
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Post by JB on Sat May 30, 2009 8:11 pm

Well, you look at it this way. THEY make their money by making music FOR big companies. Who inturn make their money off of sales to places like Walmart, and Itunes (just examples) and you as the buyer buy a CD from walmart. Whoever made that music isn't going to be compensated (sorry if i mispelled) for it unless they get an album for it (platinum, gold, or whatever the hell they use) and seeing as how the music industry is anymore, that hardly happens as is, and whats the point of arguing over this, you're not going to change his mind about it cause he does it when he feels like it regardless of what you say, and I'm pretty sure that he's not going to persuade you into downloading a shitload of stuff for free. So drop it and stop arguing about something that's unresolvable.
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Post by TNine on Sat May 30, 2009 9:12 pm

Okay, here's an analogy.

You see a cake, one of many, baked by a baker who worked very hard on it. You want it, but you don't want to pay for it. Knowing that after the day is over the baker would be forced to throw the cakes out, you wait til the end of the day, and get it from the back (i dunno, perhaps he left it for the dogs, but if i said in the dumpster it wouldn't be a very apetizing cake, now would it?).

Technically, he didn't lose anything for it, you weren't going to buy the cake anyway, but you are rewarded for laziness, and you probably WOULD have boughten the cake anyway, but you can always tell yourself no.
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Post by JB on Sat May 30, 2009 9:23 pm

look I wasn't saying either of them are right, I've downloaded my fair share of pirated songs, but i've also downloaded at least the same ammount of off ITUNES, but if the baker didn't lose anything over it, than what is the harm done? Because you did say he didn't lose anything over it meaning that it would just be extra. (arguing over an analogy... how pointless). Even so, even if KN decided that downloading songs for free was a "terrible terrible thing" almost the rest of the American populace, and many other people do it day to day.

Plus the companies that sell the music/ CD's also have other things to sell. Because a company that just sells music online wouldn't have lasted long when downloading music first became available to the general public, which hence comes back to the fact that The artist who made the song does not get paid for every person who downloads their song from Itunes.
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Post by KrAzY on Sat May 30, 2009 9:29 pm

except artsis don't just throw away their songs


you are listening to something that an artist put their time and effort into, they are getting no compensation for their work.

It is stealing, no matter how much your convoluted thoughts make it seem like you are not doing anything wrong, you are still stealing that artists work.
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Post by JB on Sat May 30, 2009 9:35 pm

Never said it wasn't stealing, look I don't support either side in this argument, because frankly I don't care much for pirating songs, I don't do it anymore, because when I did do it I didn't think it was morally illegal, but just because you say that it's wrong, its not going to stop anyone from doing it any less than they do, and I know alot more people on this site are pirating music than they let on because they don't wanna get flamed. At least he's got the guts to come out and say he does. (not saying you do, but i know some people do)
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Post by Rasq'uire'laskar on Sun May 31, 2009 12:07 am

JB wrote:Even so, even if KN decided that downloading songs for free was a "terrible terrible thing" almost the rest of the American populace, and many other people do it day to day.
That still doesn't make it right.
Democracy does not apply to morality. Never has, never will.
As a matter of fact, since when has America been a DEMOCRACY? That is one of the filthiest governments imaginable.

JB wrote:Plus the companies that sell the music/ CD's also have other things to sell. Because a company that just sells music online wouldn't have lasted long when downloading music first became available to the general public,
Well, obviously iTunes is making some sort of profit.

JB wrote:which hence comes back to the fact that The artist who made the song does not get paid for every person who downloads their song from Itunes.
Wrong.
Unless you're getting ripped off to the max (Only happens to complete idiots these days) you are getting paid a percentage. If you're good, you get paid cash upfront too.

JB wrote:because when I did do it I didn't think it was morally illegal,
Care to back that up?

JB wrote: but just because you say that it's wrong,
It's legally wrong, and it's stealing. Unless you're about to say that stealing isn't morally wrong, you're going to have a pretty short argument.

JB wrote:its not going to stop anyone from doing it any less than they do,
If that's true, then all argument is pointless, as a man convinced against his will is unconvinced.

JB wrote:At least he's got the guts to come out and say he does. (not saying you do, but i know some people do)
So, do you have respect for OJ Simpson, now that he came out and admitted he killed his wife and her friend?
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Post by czar on Sun May 31, 2009 12:13 am

A few months ago to present:
Macromedia Flash 8
Photoshop cs3 extended
Sony Vegas Pro 8.0
GoldWave
Avast!
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Post by JB on Sun May 31, 2009 12:54 am

Oh debates are such fun arent they? XD

well, first off I was 10 when I was using Limewire, and misinformed

AND THATS WHAT IVE BEEN GETTING AT THE WHOLE TIME RASQ' THIS WHOLE ARGUMENT IS POINTLESS, but for some reason it keeps coming up practically everywhere I go and I'm pretty tired of hearing it.

I've clearly stated multiple times that It was pointless, but somehow i keep getting dubbed the bad guy because I was casting out my 2 cents on the whole ordeal, even so I probably could have stated my point better. Anywho, KT downloads, sitting there semi flaming him for it clearly hasn't made him stop, and he probably won't ACCEPT IT ALREADY for fucks sake

I'm done : )
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Post by Toaster on Sun May 31, 2009 9:45 am

I have a problem with piracy in general, but what REALLY MAKES ME ANGRY is people who try to justify their habits.

You pirated spore because you didn't feel like paying for it, not to send EA a message about DRM.

You didn't pirate the music because you don't think the big publishers deserve the money. You pirated it because YOU DIDN'T FEEL LIKE PAYING FOR IT.

Pirates are not caped crusaders who're saving the world from the big bad industry with their heroic, vigilante tactics.

They are pirating because they don't want to pay. That's all there is to it, and that's obviously a bad thing.

</rant>


Last edited by ReconToaster on Mon Jun 01, 2009 11:59 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by JB on Sun May 31, 2009 11:55 am

True as it may be, (and very true at that), I've had this argument many times at school with people who are much much more un-intelligent that you guys, and usually end up winning, so this is a bit more challenging lol.

Now justifying pirating? I didn't try to, just kinda came out that way, but the thing is though that despite how much you sit there and tell them all of the wrongs about it, they're still going to do it, they just won't say anything about it. Plus with the ammount of people who do actually do it, the only way to stop them from doing it would be to tell them it would give them swine flu or some shit like that (with how gullable society is today I could seriously see someone believing that)
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Post by Angatar on Sun May 31, 2009 12:14 pm

ReconToaster, I have a justifiable reason for pirating Spore.

I bought it for $80 dollars. I installed it on my good computer, which didn't have internet at the time, so I couldn't play it. I installed it on another computer, and got to play it, but the computer is crap and I really couldn't play it that much.

Several months later I get internet on the good computer, but it turns out that someone deleted the activation code, and all it shows is 'H' many times. I enter the code again, guess what, it DOESN'T WORK.

I figure I must have entered it wrong, so I ask on the Sporum if I can retrieve the code off of my already installed computer. They say yes and I need to run regedit and look for it. I follow their instructions to the letter, and guess what? THE DAMN FILE ISN'T THERE.

I get too pissed off to care, so I decide to do something else for 2 months. I try entering it again, just to make sure, it doesn't work. I decide to just get a no-CD crack.
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Post by Toaster on Sun May 31, 2009 12:17 pm

^^

Angatar, I wouldn't even consider that piracy. You bought the game legally. That's all that matters.
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Post by Angatar on Sun May 31, 2009 12:27 pm

But I used a CD-crack, when I could have paid $10 for a new code ($90 for Spore? I lol'd).
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Post by Cheese on Sun May 31, 2009 12:30 pm

A code which you shouldnt need in the first damn place. EA were way outta line.

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Post by Angatar on Sun May 31, 2009 12:33 pm

All PC games have installation codes, unless I am extremely unlucky and all of my 20+ PC games are weird like that.
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Post by Cheese on Sun May 31, 2009 12:35 pm

Most of mine dont anymore.

But it was due to the DRM you needed it right? Only 3 installations?

Either way, their code broke.

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Post by Angatar on Sun May 31, 2009 12:37 pm

Yea, only 3 installations. I think that's why mine didn't work... Damn EA...
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Post by KristallNacht on Sun May 31, 2009 8:29 pm

Rasq'uire'laskar wrote:
Quite wrong. The artist is LOSING MONEY.
Normally, you wouldn't listen to his music, and he wouldn't get your money.
You are now listening to his music, but he isn't getting your money. That is a loss.

False. Potential gain and real gain are the same and both == null in this situation. Thus the artist ends this situation with +-0.

]
Rasq'uire'laskar wrote:
No, you said it as in "But I wouldn't have as much music to listen to." I said it as in "You wouldn't have as much music to listen to. So what?"

Exactly, its not a big deal.

Rasq'uire'laskar wrote:
Normally, you wouldn't buy that cake from the baker. But then you steal it. Try explaining the no-loss situation to him.

That's a false and inaccurate metaphor. This is more likened to going into the baker and walking away with a cake made out of air, or seeing a cake and using a magic mater replicator to replicate his cake. The baker still has all his resources.

Rasq'uire'laskar wrote:
No.
You guys drive up the cost of doing business, and the companies have to implement IPPS and DRM. And they lose money.

False. Bad corporate management and minimum wage drive up the cost of doing business.

Rasq'uire'laskar wrote:
Wait... It's interesting, and yet not interesting enough to buy. It's not a need, barely even a want, and yet it's worth the trouble of downloading?

You'd be surprised how easy it is to download things. It's really as easy as hitting 'new tab' hitting the google chrome demonoid shortcut, typing the item name and clicking the download button.

Rasq'uire'laskar wrote:It is that mentality which is the foundation of our current financial crises.

actually the financial crisis is caused by people being irresponsible with their credit.
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Post by JB on Sun May 31, 2009 8:32 pm

told, now im gonna watch from the sidelines : )
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Post by JB on Sun May 31, 2009 8:40 pm

actually i take that back, there are programs LEGAL programs you can download FOR FREE of off the internet so you can convert youtube videos FOR FREE into mp3's and Itunes songs, and as KT has said many times, its a no loss win situation, so there really is nothing to point out on that topic.

Back to the conversion program, you take any video you want off of youtube or any other site that offers audio, convert it into the music program of your choice, and put it on your ipod or MP3 player. There is virtually no difference between downloading it and converting it. The only real difference between the two I can think of is that one is declared legal, and the other is not, but people do it in about equal ammounts every day.
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Post by Toaster on Sun May 31, 2009 9:14 pm

JB wrote:and as KT has said many times, its a no loss win situation, so there really is nothing to point out on that topic.

It's NT, not KT. Don't even know where you got that from. Kristallnacht = KT?
JB wrote:
Back to the conversion program, you take any video you want off of youtube or any other site that offers audio, convert it into the music program of your choice, and put it on your ipod or MP3 player. There is virtually no difference between downloading it and converting it. The only real difference between the two I can think of is that one is declared legal, and the other is not, but people do it in about equal ammounts every day.

It's not a matter of whether or not it's legal. P2P file sharing is pretty much legal no matter what. It's a question of what is right, and what is wrong, which is a VERY different argument. Law is just a game.
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Post by KristallNacht on Sun May 31, 2009 9:24 pm

Nightcore
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Post by JB on Sun May 31, 2009 10:30 pm

well even so many times it's been brought up multiple times about legality and yes of course right and wrong is a big factor depending on veiw points. However people always insist on posing an argument about the whole ordeal even though theres really no point to it, as I have stated about 8 times now, (starting to feel like a broken record player) DESPITE WHAT ANY1 SAYS THE PERSON IS STILL GOING TO DO IT

and my bad on the mis-typing of NT's name, dont pay to much attention,

KristallnachT KT 1st and last, cmon not to hard
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Post by KrAzY on Sun May 31, 2009 10:57 pm

NT = NinjaTheory

which is his real username
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