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Existence of God

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Post by TNine Fri Apr 24, 2009 8:08 pm

kslidz wrote:no infinity does not come before a number though infinity comes after all numbers

infinity does not come before now

we dont have to measure something to make it exist but if it can be measured it does exist
If it can't be measured it can still exist. Thus is the way infinity work.
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Post by kslidz Fri Apr 24, 2009 8:15 pm

exactly i am agreeing with you

but what comes after infinity

cause apparently we are cause if there is no beginning then infinity has happen and we are apparently after it

you cant be after infinity
nothing can
we are not after it
end of story
and apparently by what you are saying we can measure infinity cause we measure time
currently in fact

let me give you a measurement

it is 10:13 pm friday
it has been approximately a minute since your last post


if we cant measure infinity (which we cannot) and infinity comes before us (which it did not) what didi i just do

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Post by Toaster Fri Apr 24, 2009 8:33 pm

Zaki wrote:Yah, I can say he came from nothing. And your point is?

You said it was illogical to think that everything came from nothing. If god created everything... and god came from nothing... everything just as much 'came from nothing' as it did under the doctrine of the 'Big Bang theory.'

Zaki wrote:Your point being?

My point being that common sense is not acceptable evidence... especially in the field of cosmology.

Zaki wrote:Are you saying something from outside this universe or dimension created life? How can something cross dimensions or universes.

I don't know. Do you know the ingredients for 'creating time?'

Zaki wrote:And the universe is literally everything. There is only 1 universe. God made the Universe. So he made everything because the universe is everything.

That depends on what definition of 'Universe' you are looking at. Some would describe it as everything, while more recent entries might list it simply as a "collection of Galaxies."

The term is under dispute.


Zaki wrote:Not really,

Matter and energy cannot be destroyed or created. So the Big Bang did not create anything or destroy any matter or energy. Thus I can point out that there must have been matter and energy before the Big Bang. Thus I can say something that can change the laws that we are enclosed in created matter and energy.

Fair enough. Still, the big bang theory states that there was matter before the big bang... just that it was contained in an extremely small area... like smaller than an atom.

Those of us who have read 'Angels and Demons' know that matter-antimatter explosions produce matter/energy.

And I still don't understand how time not existing could have allowed god to create matter/energy more easily. He still had to have 'created it,' whether or not its production was a sequence of events.


Zaki wrote:If there was the "Matrix" ( I don't believe it exists ) I would rather live in the Matrix. Instead of being on the outside about to ripped apart by squid shaped robots, I would be happier and calmer. I would not die and would continue to live the lie.

In my own way, I would be benefiting the robots and me.Sometimes living the lie is better than facing the truth.

Well done. Still, I disagree. I would prefer to know the truth under all circumstances, whether or not it brings me comfort. I would want to be woken up from the matrix, and help fight off the squid-shaped robots. Hell, at least it would be exciting.

Kslidz wrote:it is 10:13 pm friday
it has been approximately a minute since your last post

I'm not quite sure how I stand on this argument... as I'm not quite sure what it's about. Still, your example is the measurement of time relative to you... through the human perspective. In terms of the Cosmos, time is not linear.
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Post by kslidz Fri Apr 24, 2009 8:36 pm

well recon to you i am not going to argue about god really cause the only god i know is the god that is of and is Jesus and the only way to honestly know that is to have a relationship with him
its not just some belief
its a daily conversation

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Post by TNine Fri Apr 24, 2009 8:39 pm

kslidz wrote:exactly i am agreeing with you

but what comes after infinity

cause apparently we are cause if there is no beginning then infinity has happen and we are apparently after it

you cant be after infinity
nothing can
we are not after it
end of story
and apparently by what you are saying we can measure infinity cause we measure time
currently in fact

let me give you a measurement

it is 10:13 pm friday
it has been approximately a minute since your last post


if we cant measure infinity (which we cannot) and infinity comes before us (which it did not) what didi i just do
Then our entire system of math is flawed. There is infinite number of negative numbers, but what comes after that? Nothing, by your logic, but we do have it. That means math coulding exist, as any number has an infinite number before and after it.
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Post by kslidz Fri Apr 24, 2009 8:43 pm

time is not negative....
weve been over this
numbers have a starting point no matter what direction they go

its called
0
...

time is not negative
im going to say it again for emphasis
time is not negative and and negative infinity does not do the same thing
negative infinity is infinitely far away from zero
if we have infinity before us what is it infinitely far away from

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Post by TNine Fri Apr 24, 2009 8:48 pm

kslidz wrote:time is not negative....
weve been over this
numbers have a starting point no matter what direction they go

its called
0
...

time is not negative
im going to say it again for emphasis
time is not negative and and negative infinity does not do the same thing
negative infinity is infinitely far away from zero
if we have infinity before us what is it infinitely far away from
If it is infinite, it goes back forever, therefore there is no zero, no beginning. All else are flaws of math, as we have little true grasp at infinity. Least of all is our knowledge of measuring it.
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Post by kslidz Fri Apr 24, 2009 8:52 pm

if it is infinite it can have a beginning you are wrong just plain wrong

give proof that is contrary to the beliefs of all mankind please im listening
i have not heard one person who actually understands math and the concept of infinity at all say that it cannot have a beginning


and besides time may not be infinite im leaning to the side it is not at this point but it is currently expanding until further notice kinda like the universe

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Post by Felix Fri Apr 24, 2009 8:58 pm

kslidz wrote:if it is infinite it can have a beginning you are wrong just plain wrong

give proof that is contrary to the beliefs of all mankind please im listening
i have not heard one person who actually understands math and the concept of infinity at all say that it cannot have a beginning


and besides time may not be infinite im leaning to the side it is not at this point but it is currently expanding until further notice kinda like the universe

Infinite goes back and forth all the way. There is no beggining and there is no end. That's why it's called infinite.

I don't know what you're trying to prove. If things that are infinite have a beggining, that means God(being infinite) would have a beggining, meaning something or him, created himself. Which means, he wasn't always there.
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Post by kslidz Fri Apr 24, 2009 9:09 pm

no,
have you read anything I've posted?!

GOD is OUTSIDE of time therefore OUTSIDE of time there is NO beginning because to require a beginning there MUST be time

neither of you understand the concept of infinity
infinity covers everything possible
but if there is no possibility of negative then the infinite is only positive

positive infinity = real
it is not a myth it is real positive INFINITY has a beginning but no end


goodness math has never been flawed mathematics always predict the truth they have never been proven wrong if done with correct procedures and positive infinity is a basic of math

a line is infinite in both ways
a ray is infinite in one way
are both infinite
yes
does one have a beginning
yes


time is not negative

to say time is infinite in both directions it would have to cross over into the negative region which it is not

the only way it could be infinite in both directions is if time started at zero and traveled in both directions
but it still had a starting point

in fact the number line when you say positive and negative infinity it starts at 0 and expands both ways

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Post by TNine Fri Apr 24, 2009 9:29 pm

kslidz wrote:no,
have you read anything I've posted?!

GOD is OUTSIDE of time therefore OUTSIDE of time there is NO beginning because to require a beginning there MUST be time

neither of you understand the concept of infinity
infinity covers everything possible
but if there is no possibility of negative then the infinite is only positive

positive infinity = real
it is not a myth it is real positive INFINITY has a beginning but no end


goodness math has never been flawed mathematics always predict the truth they have never been proven wrong if done with correct procedures and positive infinity is a basic of math

a line is infinite in both ways
a ray is infinite in one way
are both infinite
yes
does one have a beginning
yes


time is not negative

to say time is infinite in both directions it would have to cross over into the negative region which it is not

the only way it could be infinite in both directions is if time started at zero and traveled in both directions
but it still had a starting point

in fact the number line when you say positive and negative infinity it starts at 0 and expands both ways
There is no way to apply math to a line, unless you are considering just one point or area, which is possible, but is also possible with a segment. Time is a line, a line has no begginning and no end, and no way to measure how long it is or has been, only measuring the length of a point on a line.
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Post by kslidz Fri Apr 24, 2009 9:43 pm

... wow you completely ignore every thing i said and just asserted your own opinion,
take lessons from NT much?

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Post by Toaster Fri Apr 24, 2009 11:26 pm

Time is not a line. Time is not linear. Have any of you ever heard of twin paradox? Gravity bends time. For something to be 'bent,' is must be a physical force. Time is a force. It is not a linear line. It is only linear from our perspective.

Kslidz wrote:well recon to you i am not going to argue about god really cause the only god i know is the god that is of and is Jesus and the only way to honestly know that is to have a relationship with him
its not just some belief
its a daily conversation

Fuck off! If you're not going to respond to my posts, get the fuck out of this thread. Every single time; whenever somebody like you cannot respond to my points, they resort to this. 'It's a personal relationship.' Bullshit. This is where religious people REALLY START TO FUCK WITH ME. No, it's not a relationship. No, you're not having a conversation. Typical conversations include BOTH participants speaking.

So please, don't tell me you are not going to reply to me because you are too busy conversing with a space ghost. If you give up, say so. Don't be such a coward.
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Post by Cheese Sat Apr 25, 2009 4:50 am

Space Ghost from Coast to Coast Razz

Errr... anyway.

Infinite cannot have a start - that is a contradiction of terms. Infinite goes both ways, forwards and back. I think what Tnine was trying to say (btw I was just glancing because there were sooooooo many) is that even a graph line with 0 on it is infinite because both axis can still continue forever.

As for your CD analysis, you cannot get to six minutes, because the song has always been playing. You could still however find a verse. The only way to find the six minute mark though would be by choosing a point at random.

Also, I bet that song would be terrible ;)

Also, if the universe and heaven have no end, what comes after that? Is it just empty space? Well so long as we can exist in that empty space - till counts to me. Unless there's some kind of massive space wall!! But what's behind that?!

Imagining the end of time and space is literally the hardest thing for me to imagine.

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Post by TNine Sat Apr 25, 2009 6:42 am

Cheese wrote:Space Ghost from Coast to Coast Razz

Errr... anyway.

Infinite cannot have a start - that is a contradiction of terms. Infinite goes both ways, forwards and back. I think what Tnine was trying to say (btw I was just glancing because there were sooooooo many) is that even a graph line with 0 on it is infinite because both axis can still continue forever.

As for your CD analysis, you cannot get to six minutes, because the song has always been playing. You could still however find a verse. The only way to find the six minute mark though would be by choosing a point at random.

Also, I bet that song would be terrible ;)

Also, if the universe and heaven have no end, what comes after that? Is it just empty space? Well so long as we can exist in that empty space - till counts to me. Unless there's some kind of massive space wall!! But what's behind that?!

Imagining the end of time and space is literally the hardest thing for me to imagine.
Thank you, this is essentially what i was trying to say, but it's hard for me to explain it.
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Post by LH Justin Sat Apr 25, 2009 7:27 am

kslidz wrote:exactly i am agreeing with you

but what comes after infinity

cause apparently we are cause if there is no beginning then infinity has happen and we are apparently after it

you cant be after infinity
nothing can
we are not after it
end of story
and apparently by what you are saying we can measure infinity cause we measure time
currently in fact

let me give you a measurement

it is 10:13 pm friday
it has been approximately a minute since your last post


if we cant measure infinity (which we cannot) and infinity comes before us (which it did not) what didi i just do
Nothing comes after infinity, infinity is a word to describe forever, infinity's not a variable.
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Post by kslidz Sat Apr 25, 2009 5:50 pm

YES thank you if nothing comes after infinity then how did infinite time happen before us

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Post by kslidz Sat Apr 25, 2009 5:55 pm

ReconToaster wrote:Time is not a line. Time is not linear. Have any of you ever heard of twin paradox? Gravity bends time. For something to be 'bent,' is must be a physical force. Time is a force. It is not a linear line. It is only linear from our perspective.

Kslidz wrote:well recon to you i am not going to argue about god really cause the only god i know is the god that is of and is Jesus and the only way to honestly know that is to have a relationship with him
its not just some belief
its a daily conversation

Fuck off! If you're not going to respond to my posts, get the fuck out of this thread. Every single time; whenever somebody like you cannot respond to my points, they resort to this. 'It's a personal relationship.' Bullshit. This is where religious people REALLY START TO FUCK WITH ME. No, it's not a relationship. No, you're not having a conversation. Typical conversations include BOTH participants speaking.

So please, don't tell me you are not going to reply to me because you are too busy conversing with a space ghost. If you give up, say so. Don't be such a coward.

no cause i have responded to everything you have said but as you and i have both said
there is no proof for either side

so how bout you fuck off
you have admitted to no proof against God as well jack ass
thats why i stopped talking about it cause its useless as you can OBVIOUSLY tell i was not arguing just saying my belief and saying i am not talking about that any more but just about time and its nature

so before you act all high and mighty realize that everything you said has been so much bullshit and is barley even evidence much less proof and you have ADMITTED that so why are you mad at me for not defending zaki's stupid statements, i disagree with zaki why would i care if gets proven wrong

fuck you

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Post by Toaster Sat Apr 25, 2009 6:04 pm

I admitted to no proof. My argument all along has been that you should not believe anything regarding the creation of the cosmos definitively. It's okay to think that one sounds realistic, or logical, but don't go off worshiping something you don't know that validity of.

I wasn't even talking (to you) about God in the previous post. I WAS talking about time, and instead of responding to that, you decided to curl up in the fetal postition and talk about how you have a personal relationship with god.

Fine. You speak to god. You have conversations with god. Well I personally went back in time and SAW the big bang occur... and I saw no space ghosts at the scene.

Do you see now how fucking annoying it is to have someone attempt to close off an argument by claiming personal experience?
Kslidz wrote:so before you act all high and mighty realize that everything you said has been so much bullshit and is barley even evidence much less proof and you have ADMITTED that so why are you mad at me for not defending zaki's stupid statements,

If I've been saying all along that there is no conclusive evidence... why would I just now 'realize' it?
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Post by kslidz Sat Apr 25, 2009 8:46 pm

recon i owe you an apology
i did not see the last part of your post i just saw the part where you were talking to zaki and was just basically letting you know in my next post i wasnt going to talk about God any more to you because of how little evidence each side has

and my relationship has no affect on your argument i realize that and it will not affect you but it does affect me and i am not going to argue that because it is not a point in argument and it cannot be debated dont try i will not argue its validity i would appreciate it if you would not argue it invalidity

but to your point about time and how it is relative

i just thought about something
there could have been infinity passed and it could still have a starting point

hear me out real quick
on a number line(no negatives) you start with zero correct?
and in between zero and one there are an infinite amount of points right? (infinitely small numbers ex. 1x10^-99999999999999999999999999, you get the picture)
so therefore every second has an infinite amount of infinitely small numbers in it, but each second still has a beginning

think about that thats not really an argument as an idea
just think about it
it is not something to refute or is being used to refute just something i thought of

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Post by Cheese Sun Apr 26, 2009 4:31 am

That's not a true infinite line though. It's a line between 0 and infinity...

Ok that might be infinite...

But it cant because it has a beginning...


Arghhhhh... my head hurts.

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Post by Gauz Sun Apr 26, 2009 10:00 am

This thread has now become absolutely fucking stupid..
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Post by CivBase Sun Apr 26, 2009 10:09 am

Chuck Norris counted to infinity....



















....twice.
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Post by Felix Sun Apr 26, 2009 10:30 am

CivBase wrote:Chuck Norris counted to infinity....



















....twice.

Everyone knows he is the acception to all rules and laws. don't state the obvious.
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Post by kslidz Sun Apr 26, 2009 11:04 am

Cheese wrote:That's not a true infinite line though. It's a line between 0 and infinity...

Ok that might be infinite...

But it cant because it has a beginning...


Arghhhhh... my head hurts.

exactly
its hard to think about

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