Existence of God

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Post by CivBase on Mon Mar 30, 2009 5:08 pm

JumpingJet wrote:
Zaki90 wrote:Due to all the non-believers of God in the Christianity vs. Islam thread.

You can debate the existence of God here.

I believe in God because if makes sense.

Dude, what happens if people are religious? This thread could offend them....
ROFL

Where have you been?

There's a reason I'm here, and that is simply because nobody else is. If I abandon these debates, I may as well just become an Atheist myself.

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Post by CivBase on Wed Apr 01, 2009 8:23 am

Well... there is no response yet... is it over?

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Post by Cheese on Wed Apr 01, 2009 9:05 am

Yes, and by the logic in the post above yours, I am now a believer Razz

Hallaluya!! Halalooya... Haleleua... Oh sod it... Back to atheism for me!

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Post by Toaster on Wed Apr 01, 2009 11:55 am

CivBase wrote:Well... there is no response yet... is it over?

Oh yeah... I 'll get on that
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Post by CivBase on Wed Apr 01, 2009 12:46 pm

Cheese wrote:Yes, and by the logic in the post above yours, I am now a believer Razz

Hallaluya!! Halalooya... Haleleua... Oh sod it... Back to atheism for me!
I was never trying to turn you into a believer, but simply show you that the idea of God is a logical one.

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Post by Gauz on Wed Apr 01, 2009 7:48 pm

If god is real, why the fuck does life on earth mostly suck?

Think about everything that is wrong in the world, why the hell would it happen if there is some entity that 'loves' humanity with its every breath?

To teach us a lesson? No, this god is letting humanity kill itself, while he watches. Tell me, what 'god' that you know of, an all powerful benevolent diety would let humanity die en masse like in the world today? That is a question that sends me teetering on the edges of christianity, and aethism..

I just don't know what to believe in anymore..
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Post by CivBase on Wed Apr 01, 2009 7:52 pm

x Gauz x wrote:If god is real, why the fuck does life on earth mostly suck?

Think about everything that is wrong in the world, why the hell would it happen if there is some entity that 'loves' humanity with its every breath?

To teach us a lesson? No, this god is letting humanity kill itself, while he watches. Tell me, what 'god' that you know of, an all powerful benevolent diety would let humanity die en masse like in the world today? That is a question that sends me teetering on the edges of christianity, and aethism..

I just don't know what to believe in anymore..
lol, you must not know too much about Christianity. This is an old question that has long-sense been answered and I'm tired of answering it, so I'm not going to.

Tell me, what do you accomplish by going to school and taking an easy test? What have you accomplished by getting an A on this test?

What about an experienced FPS player playing through Halo 3 on easy and only on easy? What has he accomplished?

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Post by Gauz on Wed Apr 01, 2009 7:57 pm

CivBase wrote:
x Gauz x wrote:If god is real, why the fuck does life on earth mostly suck?

Think about everything that is wrong in the world, why the hell would it happen if there is some entity that 'loves' humanity with its every breath?

To teach us a lesson? No, this god is letting humanity kill itself, while he watches. Tell me, what 'god' that you know of, an all powerful benevolent diety would let humanity die en masse like in the world today? That is a question that sends me teetering on the edges of christianity, and aethism..

I just don't know what to believe in anymore..
lol, you must not know too much about Christianity. This is an old question that has long-sense been answered and I'm tired of answering it, so I'm not going to.

Tell me, what do you accomplish by going to school and taking an easy test? What have you accomplished by getting an A on this test?

What about an experienced FPS player playing through Halo 3 on easy and only on easy? What has he accomplished?
1. Haven't heard of that answer..

2. What you acomplish is, additional points?

3. Not much really, I would say, they acomplished shitting some of his time out, thats about it though..
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Post by dragoon9105 on Wed Apr 01, 2009 8:03 pm

Nothing!... the world is nothing?

Well that means life sucks under that course of thinking... where did i put my chicken wire and suicide note.... (just kidding)

You learn why life sucks so much and why people die from the first story in the bible (Genesis)

Adam/Eve Ate the forbitten fruit and therefore essentially doomed all of humanity to suffer.

And if history has taught us anything your not supposed to rely on God.. or Government.. or Technology all that does is get millions killed before people learn there lessons.

Belive it or not the Catholic's seven deadly sins or whatever they cuase provide a good reason why the world is so bad.. becuase people are stupid, Greedy, Sexcrazed Monkies that dont want to suffer for things they should morally know are wrong.. Hence why the idea of hell exists.


A major flaw i see if the idea of Heaven/Hell in most religions...

witch is described as paradise...

so paradise for say a Fat person would be to eat alot in heaven but that itself is a sin (Gluttony).. you see the paradox here? You go to heaven so you can have your hearts desire witch turns out to be sins anyway so you go to hell? thats the flaw with most religous systems based around Heaven and hell

(or whatever you want to call it)
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Post by Gauz on Wed Apr 01, 2009 8:09 pm

1. Why the fuck would god do that? Put a tree in the middle with apples, and say "You can have any other tree with apples, just not this one.."

I do not fully understand that logic there, truly.. Why, is it his special tree? No, he wanted to test humans against their curiousity. I forgot humanity is a giant gameshow for him now..

I realized it that people say, "Well why didn't they just leave the tree alone?"
I say, "Why the hell did you make the tree that would cause all this shit in the first place!"

2. I have no two..
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Post by CivBase on Wed Apr 01, 2009 8:12 pm

I agree and disagree. Most of us on this forums are Americans, and have witnessed our country's egotistical ways (yes, I was just looking for an excuse to say egotistical). We are irresponsible and care for little other than ourselves. With this, life is pointless. You live, you die, you're done.

With God, there is a hope for an afterlife; nay, a paradise.

He created this world as a sort of class, at least, this is how I see it. If the class (and test at the end) was easy, why take it? The points mean nothing in the end, only what you gained from the class.

And, besides, what is joy without suffering?

Should my answer not suffice, try this:
Most "bad" things which happen do so because God gives a radical freedom to God's people; we are free people, not puppets on a string. But God does not cause "bad" things to happen. God loves us and grieves with us in our pain when "bad things" happen.

Therefore, we might best respond by saying that God does not Will "bad" things to happen in life. Rather, "bad" things happen in the freedom that comes with the gift of life. When "bad" things happen to any of God's children, God is grieved and suffers with us, experienced most vividly in the hurt and suffering of Jesus the Christ for all humanity. Any "bad" thing which happens is never the last word. Rather, God is the deepest and last word, and that word is love and eternal life with God.
Yes, this answer is far better than mine.


Last edited by CivBase on Wed Apr 01, 2009 8:21 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by CivBase on Wed Apr 01, 2009 8:19 pm

x Gauz x wrote:1. Why the fuck would god do that? Put a tree in the middle with apples, and say "You can have any other tree with apples, just not this one.."

I do not fully understand that logic there, truly.. Why, is it his special tree? No, he wanted to test humans against their curiousity. I forgot humanity is a giant gameshow for him now..

I realized it that people say, "Well why didn't they just leave the tree alone?"
I say, "Why the hell did you make the tree that would cause all this shit in the first place!"

2. I have no two..
Once again, I'm tired of trying to answer these at 10:00 at night, so I'm just going to use someone elses:
God put the tree of knowledge of good and evil in the Garden of Eden to give Adam and Eve a choice – to obey Him or disobey Him. Adam and Eve were free to do anything they wanted, except eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. (Genesis 2:16-17) If God had not given Adam and Eve the choice, they would have essentially been robots, simply doing what they were programmed to do. God created Adam and Eve to be “free” beings, able to make decisions, able to choose between good and evil. In order for Adam and Eve to truly be “free” – they had to have a choice.

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Post by Zaki90 on Wed Apr 01, 2009 8:56 pm

Wierd thing is...

It is always a Christian vs. a Atheist,
it is always a Christian vs. a Muslim,
it is always a Christian vs. a Jew.

Is it just me or why does every hate on Christianity?

I have never seen a Muslim vs. an Atheist or a Jew vs. an Atheist or a Jew vs. a Muslim.

The best thing about religion is the benefits.

Religion creates fear without pain and creates peace. It creates fear which in turn makes peace. The Egyptians worked and worked and accomplished so much.

But why?

Because they thought Isis or Osiris or Set would cast a drought.

They may not exist but these fake gods did more miracles than all the scientists out there today. In fact, religion is better for humanity.

If we all had a single religion, whether it fake or not it will help humanity and create peace. So why should we look for the truth. For the best truth is a lie. But this lie will help rather than cause grief. This is where all religions are wrong, lying is good in some cases.

Religion creates devotion and when everyone is devoted into a worship that no one opposes, that is when we reach world peace.

Hitler created a lie that the Aryan race was the best. And the Germans did not fight one each other. They both agreed. They agreed out of fear.

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Post by CivBase on Wed Apr 01, 2009 9:01 pm

It's always Christianity vs Whatever because Christianity is by far the dominant religion in the US and UK, where most people here are from.

Peace? Not so much...

I do agree with the last part.

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Post by Cheese on Wed Apr 01, 2009 9:33 pm

Zaki90 wrote:If we all had a single religion, whether it fake or not it will help humanity and create peace.

But it's pretty much impossible for humanity to all agree on one thing, which is why the UNSC is nothing more than a pipedream *tear*

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Post by KrAzY on Wed Apr 01, 2009 9:45 pm

except the UNSC was hardly a single united front with nobody standing against it...

you forget the URF was a big enough problem for the UNSC that they spent the equivalent of a battlefleet on 33 soldiers and their armor...
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Post by Gauz on Wed Apr 01, 2009 10:05 pm

I believe in one nation, not one religion.

I also believe that getting rid of religion would probably be the healthiest option for humanity.
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Post by Angatar on Wed Apr 01, 2009 10:07 pm

And why would that be? Religion has saved humanity so much, why get rid of it?
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Post by Toaster on Wed Apr 01, 2009 10:32 pm

Civ wrote:It's always Christianity vs Whatever because Christianity is by far the dominant religion in the US and UK, where most people here are from.

Yup. The majority of the entire worlds' population is Christian. The percentage is somewhere in the seventies.

Angatar wrote:And why would that be? Religion has saved humanity so much, why get rid of it?

don't bother to list examples...

Gauz wrote:I also believe that getting rid of religion would probably be the healthiest option for humanity.

Yeah, I mean, look at the soviets!

No actually, I agree.

Anyways, I'll get to that response tomorrow night. It's fucking 12:30 and I just got finished writing an english paper i have to present tomorrow. BACH!
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Post by kslidz on Wed Apr 01, 2009 11:18 pm

x Gauz x wrote:If god is real, why the fuck does life on earth mostly suck?

Think about everything that is wrong in the world, why the hell would it happen if there is some entity that 'loves' humanity with its every breath?

To teach us a lesson? No, this god is letting humanity kill itself, while he watches. Tell me, what 'god' that you know of, an all powerful benevolent diety would let humanity die en masse like in the world today? That is a question that sends me teetering on the edges of christianity, and aethism..

I just don't know what to believe in anymore..

what is good
what is bad
and what sucks

compared to some peoples lives anybodies life might suck but compared to another person the original person who thinks their life sucks is actually really good

we only know a very small range of good and evil

who are you to say what is ultimately good

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Post by CivBase on Thu Apr 02, 2009 6:56 am

You can't get rid of religion. You can't just tell a person what to believe.

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Post by Toaster on Thu Apr 02, 2009 12:09 pm

civ wrote: You can't get rid of religion. You can't just tell a person what to believe.

I meant more of a collective decision to get rid of religion, which is just as likely to happen as the concept of a utopia. Hell, It is utopia Cool

That's what Space is for bounce
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Post by Cheese on Thu Apr 02, 2009 12:47 pm

ReconToaster wrote:
Angatar wrote:And why would that be? Religion has saved humanity so much, why get rid of it?

don't bother to list examples...

I think religion did a good job of shaping humanity, if it didn't then how would it have survived for this long? It's like survival of the fittest, but with concepts.

Look back 1000 years ago - life basically sucked for everybody by today's standards. We live infinitely more comfortably than the richest king could ever have. What better concept to get people to behave? The law of man is governed by finite resources - if you do something bad under the eyes of God, you're pretty much fucked.

Then look at taxes. A tithe would be paid to the catholic church by all the peasants. The clergy, in turn, would then be taxed by the state. It's a pretty efficient method of taxing without causing unrest.

Holy Books are not nearly the first literature, but you must admit their importance. The Bible is the most stolen book in the world!

And finally, the conquest. What better way to get ten thousand men to lay down their lives than for the promise of heaven? How many times have we heard the phrase 'heathen' in battle speeches? Also, we have religion to thank for the mace. Holy men weren't allowed to spill blood - so they developed this nice little workaround.

So religion has sanctioned millions of murders, and wasted crops that could have been used to end famines, but it has also undeniably shaped civilization, brought nations together (or trampled them underfoot), and shaped some of the world's greatest thinkers.

In today's world, I'd think the collaborative end of religion would be good for the most part - but as you said, it's not going happen. Even though I do predict religion in the UK is going to see its majority atheists in two generations if it's not already.

But if I were starting a nation before or during the dark ages, I'd make them have a religion, if only because religion is the opiates of the masses... that and opiates... there would be lots of opiates.

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Post by Toaster on Fri Apr 03, 2009 2:15 pm

Cheese wrote:Look back 1000 years ago - life basically sucked for everybody by today's standards. We live infinitely more comfortably than the richest king could ever have. What better concept to get people to behave? The law of man is governed by finite resources - if you do something bad under the eyes of God, you're pretty much fucked.

Funny though, how the mass introduction of modern religion in Europe coordinated perfectly with the fall of Rome, and the destruction of civilized society.

The Romans had running water bathrooms, something that wouldn't exist elsewhere in Europe for hundreds of years.

All the Romans had to hope for was spending an eternity in the underworld.

I agree that Religion was helpful, and somewhat necessary during the middle ages, but overall, I think it's destructive.
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Post by Gauz on Fri Apr 03, 2009 3:53 pm

ReconToaster wrote:
Cheese wrote:Look back 1000 years ago - life basically sucked for everybody by today's standards. We live infinitely more comfortably than the richest king could ever have. What better concept to get people to behave? The law of man is governed by finite resources - if you do something bad under the eyes of God, you're pretty much fucked.

Funny though, how the mass introduction of modern religion in Europe coordinated perfectly with the fall of Rome, and the destruction of civilized society.

The Romans had running water bathrooms, something that wouldn't exist elsewhere in Europe for hundreds of years.

All the Romans had to hope for was spending an eternity in the underworld.

I agree that Religion was helpful, and somewhat necessary during the middle ages, but overall, I think it's destructive.
Not to mention most of the religions speak of an end to the world, something which I do not want to happen.
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