Christianity vs Islam

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Post by Rasq'uire'laskar on Sun Mar 22, 2009 1:34 pm

Nocbl2 wrote:Didnt on dude make a gospel like 500 years later or something?
Yeah. The Q document. And a lot of Gnostic "Gospels", none of which are in the current bible.

TNine wrote:
Nocbl2 wrote:Revalations
I care.
Was that made before 300 AD?
Yes, it was written by the last surviving disciple, John.

I will not address Zaki's last point, seeing as he blatantly ignores so much of what Rot said.
As someone who is learning Deutsch, I can attest to the fact that pronouns exist for which English has no translation, and that it is probable that Hebrew has the same.
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Post by Zaki90 on Sun Mar 22, 2009 1:49 pm

CivBase wrote:I dunno zaki. I choose to take the Bible literally, and I find few troubles with it. The Bible, despite what most think, is not just a laid out list of rules.

I know what the Bible is. It is more of a book full of journal entries that spans more than 3700 years of history. It has laws to abide by in the book itself.

CivBase wrote:God is not a physical being, so He is not a he or a she (reminds me of my neighbors shirt that says Hii saved me and has a picture of God an a Nintendo mii). We just refer to Him as He so as to not treat Him as an it.

Still, He is singular. The Bible should say They if "let us" was referring to more than one god. Now you are not taking the Bible literally. The people who wrote the Bible put the word He. So they must be saying that God is singular.

CivBase wrote:Jesus is God's son, but Jesus, God, and the Holy Spirit are the Holy Trinity, which is one. They are one, though each perform their own role.

That makes no sense. Then they are different people. Jesus prays to God. Where has the Holy Spirit ever prayed to God? Where has the Father prayed to God?

CivBase wrote:Pork is not wrong. Where has it ever said pork is wrong? You're confusing the silly church tradition of not eating meat during lent.

[Leviticus 11:7-8]

[Deuteronomy 14:8]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aU5kek3D-4I

I don't think so.

TNine wrote:Perhaps God changes his mind sometimes?

Seriously, he had a drastic change from Old Testament to New Testament, it's not surprising he has different views.

Thus you are denying God's perfection. Those who are perfect need not to change what they say because what they say is perfect and does not require changing for there are no mistakes to change or correct.

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Post by Felix on Sun Mar 22, 2009 1:53 pm

Ya... God is perfect...go with that... Rolling Eyes
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Post by Zaki90 on Sun Mar 22, 2009 2:01 pm

Rasq'uire'laskar wrote:I will not address Zaki's last point, seeing as he blatantly ignores so much of what Rot said.
As someone who is learning Deutsch, I can attest to the fact that pronouns exist for which English has no translation, and that it is probable that Hebrew has the same.

Then you just said that the Bible is translated wrong. Which says the Bible is unreliable.

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Post by CivBase on Sun Mar 22, 2009 2:09 pm

Zaki90 wrote:I know what the Bible is. It is more of a book full of journal entries that spans more than 3700 years of history. It has laws to abide by in the book itself.
Other than the ten commandments, which were not forms in the bible, where are these laws?

Zaki90 wrote:Still, He is singular. The Bible should say They if "let us" was referring to more than one god.
If it ever says They it is referring to the trinity, which is three but one.

Zaki90 wrote:Now you are not taking the Bible literally. The people who wrote the Bible put the word He. So they must be saying that God is singular.
He, as in God takes the physical form of a male most often. Happy?

Zaki90 wrote:That makes no sense. Then they are different people. Jesus prays to God. Where has the Holy Spirit ever prayed to God? Where has the Father prayed to God?
There's a reason humans weren't supposed to eat from the tree of knowledge. You try to make sense of things using our physical laws of nature, the laws that God himself created.

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Post by Rasq'uire'laskar on Sun Mar 22, 2009 2:12 pm

Zaki90 wrote:
Rasq'uire'laskar wrote:I will not address Zaki's last point, seeing as he blatantly ignores so much of what Rot said.
As someone who is learning Deutsch, I can attest to the fact that pronouns exist for which English has no translation, and that it is probable that Hebrew has the same.

Then you just said that the Bible is translated wrong. Which says the Bible is unreliable.
No, it's just the incapability of the language.
For example, try translating sciamachy into arabic.

In any case, when the bible was translated, footnotes were added to make up for language limitations. Should be in any NIV study bible.
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Post by Rotaretilbo on Sun Mar 22, 2009 2:26 pm

Zaki90 wrote:I believe that the Hebrew word for God is Yahweh. And when God says "Let us" he is referring to all the creations around him. It actually never points out that there is another God. If this verse was used in the plural form of God. Then there are 3 gods. But the then it says he. In the singular way, three times.

Genesis 1:27
So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God he created him;
(R) male and female he created them.

Actually, that is hardly the case. Whenever God talks to the angels, he never includes them in personal pronouns with himself. And I guess you weren't paying attention, but, again, Hebrew has a plural mechanic that English does not. So, while the pronouns themselves there are singular, the word God and all pronouns referring to him in that verse are actually given plural connotation. This was lost in translation, as English has no way of depicting a singular pronoun to be both singular and plural, like Hebrew does.

Zaki90 wrote:But that would make no sense. God is not the Messiah. Jesus is the Messiah. Jesus prays to God. This is why the Bible is unreliable. It controversial to itself.

One time it says God is a He. Then they say God is Jesus. Then they say Jesus prays to God. Then they say God is a spirit and has no gender. Then they say pork is wrong. Then they say it is right. It's like someone is trying to correct mistakes that others made. Only making it worse and worse.

God is the Messiah because Jesus is God. And Jesus prays to God to demonstrate to us how to pray.

Zaki90 wrote:That is why the Quran is so reliable. It is the word of God. That is what Quran means. The Quran is written by God.

The Bible is not.

The Bible was alleged to be God inspired decades before the Quran was ever conceived. And last time I checked, man wrote the Quran just as man wrote the Bible, so you'd have to argue that God inspired the Quran, just as he inspired the Bible.

Zaki90 wrote:I don't see how Christians find that the Quran is unreliable.

You can't ignore parts of the Bible.

Choose one!

Probably something to do with the Quran contradicting the Bible, which actually doesn't contradict itself, if you bother to try and understand.

TNine wrote:Perhaps God changes his mind sometimes?

Seriously, he had a drastic change from Old Testament to New Testament, it's not surprising he has different views.

It wasn't really so drastic a change as some believe. God doesn't change his mind, but he makes new decisions when new circumstances appear. Before Jesus, no one was good enough to get to Heaven. God loved everyone, but he had to deal with sin in some way or another. After Jesus, everyone can get to Heaven if they so choose.

Zaki90 wrote:More stuff

Zaki, I'm on the verge of just closing this thread. Are you going to start making rational points, or are you going to continue grasping at straws and ignoring counterpoints?

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Post by Zaki90 on Sun Mar 22, 2009 4:19 pm

Rasq'uire'laskar wrote:
Zaki90 wrote:
Rasq'uire'laskar wrote:I will not address Zaki's last point, seeing as he blatantly ignores so much of what Rot said.
As someone who is learning Deutsch, I can attest to the fact that pronouns exist for which English has no translation, and that it is probable that Hebrew has the same.

Then you just said that the Bible is translated wrong. Which says the Bible is unreliable.
No, it's just the incapability of the language.
For example, try translating sciamachy into arabic.

In any case, when the bible was translated, footnotes were added to make up for language limitations. Should be in any NIV study bible.

Thus, making the translation inaccurate.

And not everyone has an NIV study bible.

Will ya'll stop quoting me when I am talking to someone else.

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Post by Zaki90 on Sun Mar 22, 2009 4:33 pm

Rotaretilbo wrote:

Genesis 1:27
So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God he created him;
(R) male and female he created them.

Actually, that is hardly the case. Whenever God talks to the angels, he never includes them in personal pronouns with himself. And I guess you weren't paying attention, but, again, Hebrew has a plural mechanic that English does not. So, while the pronouns themselves there are singular, the word God and all pronouns referring to him in that verse are actually given plural connotation. This was lost in translation, as English has no way of depicting a singular pronoun to be both singular and plural, like Hebrew does.[/quote]

Also, I never said God was talking to the angels. I said the creations around him.
I understood, but there was a way to depict God as more than one with a pronoun. It would have been they.
And because of the loss in the translation, how accurate is the Christian bible?

Rotaretilbo wrote:God is the Messiah because Jesus is God. And Jesus prays to God to demonstrate to us how to pray.

It says no where in the Bible that God is the Messiah. It says the Son of God is the Messiah. Jesus prayed to God.
Jesus prayed that the sins of the people be relinquished. Jesus asked God.

Rotaretilbo wrote:The Bible was alleged to be God inspired decades before the Quran was ever conceived. And last time I checked, man wrote the Quran just as man wrote the Bible, so you'd have to argue that God inspired the Quran, just as he inspired the Bible.

God inspired. It is not the word of God. Mohamed did not write the Quran. He preached it. He was illiterate and could not write. But his companions did know. And they compiled the Quran. The Quran in and out of itself is God's word written down. One the best things about it is that each and every copy is exactly the same. Every Muslim can recite the verses just as they are in the book even if they read different volumes.


Rotaretilbo wrote:Probably something to do with the Quran contradicting the Bible, which actually doesn't contradict itself, if you bother to try and understand.

I haven't used a single verse from the Quran.

TNine wrote:Perhaps God changes his mind sometimes?

Seriously, he had a drastic change from Old Testament to New Testament, it's not surprising he has different views.

It wasn't really so drastic a change as some believe. God doesn't change his mind, but he makes new decisions when new circumstances appear. Before Jesus, no one was good enough to get to Heaven. God loved everyone, but he had to deal with sin in some way or another. After Jesus, everyone can get to Heaven if they so choose.

Zaki90 wrote:More stuff

Zaki, I'm on the verge of just closing this thread. Are you going to start making rational points, or are you going to continue grasping at straws and ignoring counterpoints?[/quote]

I have been using rational points.

You actually have ignored some of mine. Did you even watch the video I linked to Joel Osteen preaching to a literal stadium full of thousands of Christians saying that pork is against God's word and he gives the reasons.

Did you watch the reasons?!?!

They were all logical and proved that pigs are one of the most dirty and toxic animals alive.

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Post by Toaster on Sun Mar 22, 2009 5:09 pm

Civ wrote:So I'm ignorant because I choose a side to believe in while you're not because you don't?

That's right. You convey a sense of certainty about an idea that is no where near certain. Why did you believe in Christianity in the FIRST place? The question is not whether or not it can be disproved, but why you consider it a reasonable theory to conclude in the first place.

Civ wrote:It's no different than Christianity. You just tell yourself that it's less likely, even though you have no evidence to say it's less likely, and then say that there is more evidence for evolution than there is for ID, which there isn't.

Evolution is the best answer we've come up with through the process of the scientific method.

What bothers me is not that you would choose the idea of a god over the idea of evolution, but rather that you completely dismiss the idea of Macro evolution, and hold complete "faith" in an idea which has no backing. I have no faith in the theory of evolution, but I would say that, with the clues that we currently posses, it's the most apparent possibility.

The same is true with the big bang theory. While I have no blind belief in it, I do think that, with the evidence we have presently available, it's the most conclusive answer we have.

Civ wrote:And that makes you more rational?

Which is worse, having an old, torn up shirt, or no shirt at all?

Torn up shirts offer no warmth and protection. They only get in the way.

Still, I would much rather maintain my intellectual integrity than blindly subject myself to a belief system, however comforting it might be.

Nocbl2 wrote:Revalations

Revelations...

Zaki wrote:Humanity needs fear to stay under control. If I wasn't scared of Hell, I would be out drunk at a nightclub. Probably doing LSD, Cocaine, huffing, Marijuana, Reefer, Viagra, and many other drugs out there.

But the thing is. If there was no God, you would be worthless. I am happy there is a God. God adds meaning and justice to our lives. So go ahead, don't believe in God, but know one thing. God is the greatest idea mankind has ever made up.( In your eyes )

If you really have that minuscule amount of self control... I don't believe in god... I've never done any of that stuff.

I know a lot of people who are religious, and they don't do good things simply for the fear of going to hell. They're not constantly thinking of god. They tend to do good things out of compassion for others, and simply because they are nice people. Humans have a higher level of thinking than animals. We don't need a fear/reward factor to act morally.

And yeah, I don't need an arrogant sense of self importance to be happy.
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Post by Rotaretilbo on Sun Mar 22, 2009 5:52 pm

Zaki90 wrote:Also, I never said God was talking to the angels. I said the creations around him.

Ah, yes, he and the creation around him created man. That makes sense. Not.

Zaki90 wrote:I understood, but there was a way to depict God as more than one with a pronoun. It would have been they.

No, you don't understand. The Hebrew word "he" could be given plural connotation. It was still "he", but it was also plural. In English, we have no way of showing this.

Zaki90 wrote:And because of the loss in the translation, how accurate is the Christian bible?

Completely, because the Christian Bible was written in Hebrew and Greek long before it was ever translated to English.

Zaki90 wrote:It says no where in the Bible that God is the Messiah. It says the Son of God is the Messiah.

Isaiah 9 wrote:6For unto us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. [sup7][/sup]Of the increase of his government and peace there will be no end. He will reign on David's throne and over his kingdom, establishing and upholding it with justice and righteousness from time on and forever. The zeal of the LORD Almighty will accomplish this.

Zaki90 wrote:Jesus prayed to God.
Jesus prayed that the sins of the people be relinquished. Jesus asked God.

Think of God as a computer, and the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are different programs on this computer. Are they not allowed to communicate with each other? Furthermore, if Jesus did not pray to God, who would demonstrate for us the proper way to pray? The Lord's Prayer was, at the time, completely opposite of how Jews prayed. Jesus suggests that we should have an intimate father-son relationship with God, rather than a reserved servant-master relationship.

Zaki90 wrote:God inspired. It is not the word of God. Mohamed did not write the Quran. He preached it. He was illiterate and could not write. But his companions did know. And they compiled the Quran. The Quran in and out of itself is God's word written down.

You just contradicted yourself. If men wrote it, then God did not write it, he inspired it, just like the Bible. So the Quran doesn't have some leg up because it was inspired by God but the Bible wasn't, since both allege to have been inspired by God and written by men. Nice try, though.

Zaki90 wrote:One the best things about it is that each and every copy is exactly the same. Every Muslim can recite the verses just as they are in the book even if they read different volumes.

So, if I were to read the Quran in English, it would be exactly the same, word for word, grammar for grammar, connotation for connotation, the exact same as it is in Arabic?

Zaki90 wrote:I haven't used a single verse from the Quran.

You don't have to recite verses for me to see how clearly the Quran contradicts the Bible. The fact that you are so viciously attacking the Bible's integrity leads me to believe that the Quran cannot possibly agree with the Bible.

Zaki90 wrote:I have been using rational points.

Such as? You ignore half of my points and the ones you do respond to, you just repeat yourself and ignore the actual point itself.

Zaki90 wrote:You actually have ignored some of mine. Did you even watch the video I linked to Joel Osteen preaching to a literal stadium full of thousands of Christians saying that pork is against God's word and he gives the reasons.

Did you watch the reasons?!?!

They were all logical and proved that pigs are one of the most dirty and toxic animals alive.

And? I don't need Joel Osteen or any other person to tell me what God's word says, because I have a Bible sitting right here next to me, and I can read it myself. God forbid Jews from eating things that were ceremonially unclean. Later, after the death of Christ, Christians are no longer condemned by the law, and God made it clear that it was ok to eat things that had previously been considered "unclean". Because blood sacrifice was no longer required to absolve sin, dietary habits were no longer required to keep a person ceremonially clean for when they offered blood sacrifices. Pigs could be the dirtiest, most fattening, unhealthy animals on the face of the planet, and that wouldn't make it a sin to eat them. And, as has already been pointed out, pigs really aren't that dirty. I've been to pig farms as well, and while they have a mud hole, their food is never nearby it, and they certainly don't eat their own shit. Conversely, as has already been pointed out, goats, which are among the animals considered kosher, do eat their own shit, and on a regular basis. So the fact that pigs eat their own shit never had anything to do with why they were unclean in the first place.

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Post by Zaki90 on Sun Mar 22, 2009 7:50 pm

Man...

that was huge.

Where should I start.

1. The creations around him being the animals and the plants. He was talking to Nature. Why would God need permission from him/her self.

2. "could",

It would be better for you had the writers said they.

3. Hebrew was dropped at the end of the Medieval Ages. Greek has changed 5 times.

4. Jesus had already showed how to pray. Why do it again?

5. I never said God wrote it. I said God revealed it in words. Words that were revealed to the people. The people made the first Quran that was accepted by Mohamed.

6. "Exact", no. But Muslims don't recite in English. We don't pray in English. We don't do Du'a in English. And we always advise to those former Christians converted Muslims to read the Quran in Arabic.

7. Actually, I have done bad in representing the Quran. Horrible.

If I had my old brother, I might do better.

8. I can do that sometimes. But sometimes I miss it. Especially in big walls of text.

9.

Haven't you thought the revision that such a preacher has made. This man I'm sure has much more intelligence than you in the Biblical areas.

It says in the video why it is so unclean.

And I got the Bible to say it was sin to eat such an abomination.

As for the goats, wild goats are not. Goats have one of the best digestive systems ever. They have no toxins.

The fact that pigs eat their own crap actually does. The pig have very bad digestive systems. The toxins and filth in the crap stays with the pig even on the dinner plate.

Also, pigs eat their own dead children, they will eat viruses and germs that are in the dirt that also stay.

I'm bored of attacking. Seeing all the points I use, you think are incompetent.

You attack me now.

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Post by kslidz on Sun Mar 22, 2009 9:22 pm

Gods trinity is complete only outside time because god creTed time and outside time the rules of physics don't quite apply so when god translates into time his infinite being is only viewed in portions making it seem that god is completly separate beings but he is not

Example time is a book the author is god
From the viewpoint of the characters in the book there story is progressing at a certain rate but the author is not bound to the timline in the book in fact he can be in any part of the book At any time according to the viewpoint of the characters in the book. In no way can they relate to the authors position.

This next example isnt perfect but its pretty dang good
Also think of a person who writes the book at different times in his life . It may appear to be different people but they really arent they'd are the same just at different perspectives in time

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Post by Rotaretilbo on Sun Mar 22, 2009 10:30 pm

Zaki90 wrote:Man...

that was huge.

Where should I start.

The beginning? Razz

Zaki90 wrote:1. The creations around him being the animals and the plants. He was talking to Nature. Why would God need permission from him/her self.

He wasn't asking permission. He was simply saying "let's make man in our image." Ignore the us for a moment, and look at the our. Are humans made in the image of all nature? Because that's pretty damned diverse. We would be like freaky mutant things if we were.

Zaki90 wrote:2. "could",

It would be better for you had the writers said they.

No, because the pronoun is still "he", but in Hebrew, it is "he" with a plural connotation. If you read the Bible in Hebrew, it is both a singular and plural pronoun. To translate it as they is just as incorrect as translating it as he, if not more so. The problem is the English language, not the Bible. And last time I checked, the Bible didn't start in the English language.

Zaki90 wrote:3. Hebrew was dropped at the end of the Medieval Ages. Greek has changed 5 times.

But we know when the Bible was written, so we know which Greek was used. ;)

Zaki90 wrote:4. Jesus had already showed how to pray. Why do it again?

That's like saying, "Jesus had already given a parable about salvation, why do it again?" or, "Jesus already cast out demons once, why do it again?" or, "Jesus already healed a sick person, why do it again?" That is to say, what you are saying is rubbish.

Zaki90 wrote:5. I never said God wrote it. I said God revealed it in words. Words that were revealed to the people. The people made the first Quran that was accepted by Mohamed.

Which is exactly how the Bible was created, or were you not paying attention?

Zaki90 wrote:6. "Exact", no. But Muslims don't recite in English. We don't pray in English. We don't do Du'a in English. And we always advise to those former Christians converted Muslims to read the Quran in Arabic.

Well excuse us if we don't learn two foreign and ancient dialects to read the Bible. You know a good preacher when he refers back to the Greek or Hebrew word to full emphasize it's meaning, but you can't expect Christians, almost all of whom do not natively speak Hebrew or ancient Greek, to learn those languages just to read the Bible and understand the grammatical connotations that are only ever referred to when people try to argue that the Old Testament doesn't support the concept of a Holy Trinity.

Zaki90 wrote:7. Actually, I have done bad in representing the Quran. Horrible.

If I had my old brother, I might do better.

Well, I'll assume that the Quran alleges that God and Jesus are two different people, which is a giant contradiction in and of its self.

Zaki90 wrote:8. I can do that sometimes. But sometimes I miss it. Especially in big walls of text.

My points are almost always in manageable paragraphs right after the quote of what they are responding to.

Zaki90 wrote:9.

Haven't you thought the revision that such a preacher has made. This man I'm sure has much more intelligence than you in the Biblical areas.

It says in the video why it is so unclean.

And I could argue that some of the corrupt clerics that use Islam to make people strap bombs to themselves and set them off in public restaurants are more knowledgeable than you of the Quran, but that doesn't mean that their interpretation is correct, does it?

Zaki90 wrote:And I got the Bible to say it was sin to eat such an abomination.

And we pointed out in the Bible three times the passage that specifically lifts this dietary restriction after the death of Christ. Do you want another passage?

Zaki90 wrote:As for the goats, wild goats are not. Goats have one of the best digestive systems ever. They have no toxins.

And goats are one of the dirtiest animals on the planet. Besides, in both cases, cooking it over a fire gets rid of almost all of the toxins. You can cook a highly poisonous snake and the fire will destroy most if not all of the poison.

Zaki90 wrote:The fact that pigs eat their own crap actually does. The pig have very bad digestive systems. The toxins and filth in the crap stays with the pig even on the dinner plate.

Except they don't eat their own crap, and any toxins in their digestive tract isn't in their muscle, and any toxin in their muscle is actually in the blood which also dissolves away when cooked. So, no, eating pig is nowhere close to eating shit. The chances that there is actually pig shit in a slice of cooked pork is so astronomically high, it isn't worth mentioning. You're more likely to eat bad cow.

Zaki90 wrote:Also, pigs eat their own dead children, they will eat viruses and germs that are in the dirt that also stay.

Actually, quite a lot of mammals do.

Zaki90 wrote:I'm bored of attacking. Seeing all the points I use, you think are incompetent.

You attack me now.

Done and done.

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Post by Zaki90 on Mon Mar 23, 2009 5:53 pm

Rather than respond,

I am waiting for you to attack me.

You haven't attacked. I have been on the offense. Unless


And we pointed out in the Bible three times the passage that specifically lifts this dietary restriction after the death of Christ. Do you want another passage?

is an offense.

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Post by Rotaretilbo on Mon Mar 23, 2009 6:07 pm

I know far too little about the Quran to try and attack its integrity. However, I know enough about the Bible to defend its integrity.

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Post by Zaki90 on Mon Mar 23, 2009 6:12 pm

Um...
anyone else?

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Post by Toaster on Mon Mar 23, 2009 7:59 pm

Zaki90 wrote:Um...
anyone else?

*Attacks Quran's integrity.

Are we arguing whether or not it is, medically, an abomination to eat pig? Who gives a shit? Bacon tastes good, and that's the end of it. Why be so concerned about eating healthy if you're gonna live forever anyways?
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Christianity vs Islam - Page 3 Empty Re: Christianity vs Islam

Post by Zaki90 on Mon Mar 23, 2009 8:13 pm

ReconToaster wrote:
Zaki90 wrote:Um...
anyone else?

*Attacks Quran's integrity.

Are we arguing whether or not it is, medically, an abomination to eat pig? Who gives a shit? Bacon tastes good, and that's the end of it. Why be so concerned about eating healthy if you're gonna live forever anyways?

Aren't you Agnostic?

And I believe you are defending what I stated.

We are debating which is the correct religion over a variety of topics.

Still waiting.

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Christianity vs Islam - Page 3 Empty Re: Christianity vs Islam

Post by PiEdude on Mon Mar 23, 2009 8:13 pm

Again,
Christianity vs Islam - Page 3 Iliketrentthread
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Post by Rasq'uire'laskar on Mon Mar 23, 2009 8:57 pm

That's so obviously photoshopped...

Unless there really is a guy in this world who is fifty feet tall and has a deformed right hand.
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Post by PiEdude on Mon Mar 23, 2009 9:02 pm

I didn't chop it.
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Post by Toaster on Mon Mar 23, 2009 9:04 pm

Zaki wrote:Aren't you Agnostic?

And I believe you are defending what I stated.

We are debating which is the correct religion over a variety of topics.

Still waiting.

I prefer the term atheist... as agnostic is a bit too... objective. I'm much more on the side of "believe in the possibility of a god, but STRONGLY doubt it"

We had this discussion in the other thread...

Anyways, I was seeing it from your perspective. As long as you're gonna live forever... why not just eat the damn pig?
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Post by rzgrz on Tue Mar 24, 2009 12:10 am

Zak, have you been answered on Abraham and Moses and who they worshiped?
if not.... the reason they worshiped God only is because god had not manifested and sent Jesus and the spirit. They were before that time theirfore they worshiped the name they new God by as Lord, Jehovah Jirah..EXCETRA!...(not about to list every name).

now i subside because debates like this can tear the members apart..
*subsided but only to leave a post bomb behind*
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Post by kslidz on Tue Mar 24, 2009 9:35 am

i know very little about the quaran besides it was dictated by an illiterate that had seizures and in these spasms he saw stuff and peopel wrote down what he told them

from what i know of him he did not die for his beliefs suffered nothing and to me has no reason to be believed that he even believes himself

he had no religious background



i found a very interesting site
stateing what the quran states and scientifically disproves it

there is a lot of other interesting stuff you should check it out

http://debate.org.uk/topics/history/quran.htm#I



I3vii: Creation
Sura 86:5-7 tells us that man is created from a gushing fluid that issues from between the loins and the ribs. Therefore, in this sura we find that the semen which creates a child originates from the back or kidney of the male and not the testicles.

I3viii: Pharaoh's Cross
In sura 7:124 we find Pharoah admonishing his sorcerers because they believe in the superiority of Moses's power over theirs. Pharoah threatens them with cutting off their hands and feet on opposite sides, and then says they will all die on the cross. But their were no crosses in those days. Crucifixion was first practised by the Phoenicians and the Carthaginians and then borrowed extensively by the Romans close to the time of Christ, 1700 years after Pharaoh!

I3ix: Other Scientific problems
Sura 16:66 mentions that cow's milk comes from between the excrement and the blood of the cow's abdomen. What does this mean?
In sura 16:69 we are told that honey, which gives healing, comes out of the bees abdomen. Again, what does it mean that honey comes out of a bees abdomen?
sura 6:38 says that all animals and flying beings form communities, like humans. I would like to ask whether this includes spiders, where in some species the female eats the male after mating has taken place. Is that a community like ours?
sura 25:45-46 maintains that it is the sun which moves to create shadows. Yet, I have always been taught that it was the rotation of the earth which caused shadows to move, while the sun remained quite still (i.e. thus the importance of sundials in earlier days).
sura 17:1 says Muhammad went to the "farthest Mosque" during his journey by night (the Mi'raj), which Muslims explain was the Dome of the Rock mosque, in Jerusalem. But there was no mosque in Jerusalem during the life of Muhammad, and the Dome of the Rock was not built until 690 C.E., by the Amir 'Abd al Malik, a full 58 years after Muhammad's death! There was not even a temple in existence at that time. The temple of Jerusalem had been destroyed by Titus 570 years before this vision. So what was this mosque Muhammad supposedly saw?

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