Do you Think Former President Bush was a bad president? 2.0

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Do you Think Former President Bush was a bad president?

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Post by Felix on Wed Mar 18, 2009 9:24 pm

I am starting to think someone pays Zaki to try and "brainwash" us...

but, there goes my crazy theories again...*puts tin-foil on head*

Anyway, to get on topic, Bush was an ok president. He wasn't the worst one. Also, half of the presidents aren't even remembered by most people, so, before you go saying he was a bad president, do some research on all the past presidents, then come back and say he was terrible.
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Post by KrAzY on Wed Mar 18, 2009 10:03 pm

fish without scales were prohibited... a lot of my jewish friends won't eat sturgeon... tho that is probably because sturgeon meat is an aquired taste... and is expensive as hell... like caviar
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Post by Rasq'uire'laskar on Wed Mar 18, 2009 11:10 pm

I can go get 150 pounds of Sturgeon meat for free...
All I have to do is capture a stray cat and get some steel cable.

But has anybody figured out what "Kosher Salt" is supposed to be? Is it salt that hasn't come into contact with pigs?

And Zaki... that poor Middle Eastern education can't have done much for you.
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Post by Zaki90 on Wed Mar 18, 2009 11:14 pm

KrAzY wrote:the christian bible does not prohibit the eating of pork... and i've never once heard that christians aren't allowed to eat catfish

don't quote the old testament... thats the Jewish Bible... those form the laws of Kosher... stating that anything that doesn't chew its food and have cloven feet is unfit for human consumption... that includes rabbts, pigs, fish, camels... ext



also... hundreds of other countries eat pork and catfish too... much more so than America (looking at Scotland)... so holding that against anyone is dumb... really holding a religious grudge against anyone is dumb... I personally am an agnostic... I'm gonna partake in all forms of meat unless a deity directly says "don't do it" .... I don't listen to the work of people who have claimed to have spoken to god... I'll believe when he talks to me.


there are several examples of times dictatorships have failed... Saddam Hussain was a dictator... even if his title was "president"... he would MURDER anybody who voted against him, speak out against him, or who had different political views than him....

if Obama started calling himself King Obama would that make America a monarchy? no.

Wow...

WTF,
You just denied the Bible. Jewish or not Jewish, why would it matter?!?!

Christains believe in the Bible, but many do not follow every word it says.
What is the problem with quoting the Old Testament. Do you not use Adam and Eve from the Bible?

And I just got a link pointing to Joel Osteen saying that you cannot eat pork.

But Saddam Hussien was still legally elected and Iraq was still under democratic rule.
So techanically, Iraq is and was a democratic country.

Zaki, but that logic, I could argue that Hitler was not a dictator, he was a chancellor. He was appointed by Bismark and his Nazi buddies in Congress "temporarily" removed limitations to his power so that he could handle the war more efficiently.

And Zaki, before you spout off about another religion, do a little research. I can quote passages of the Quran out of context just like you can pull Biblical scripture out of context. And yet, I don't hold some grudge against all Muslims. My problem is with the extremists who abuse the Quran to get their ways.

As for pork, God restricted the Jews from eating pork (though, for all intents and purposes, I can't find there being limits of fish, since fisherman was a common occupation), and after the death of Christ, removed limitations even for the Jews as to what they could eat. Gentile Christians (the majority of American Christians being such) have never been restricted as to their dietary patterns, and Jewish Christians were only temporarily restricted as to their dietary patterns before the coming of Christ. So before you spout your bullshit, read the Bible three times.
1.
I am holding a grudge against those who are unwilling to keep to the bounds of their own religon.

See I can't find there being a removal of the limitations of dietary patterns. I can sure as hell see a beginning of the limitation.

It's like your grounded by your parents until futher notice. Weeks pass and nothing happens. You think it is ok. Then you have a party. Was it ok to have this party without knowing if you were grounded or not? Just because someone didn't say anything doesn't mean it never existed.
2.
Hitler was both a chancellor and a dictator. He was first a chancellor and then overthrew the government and became the dictator. Known as the Enabling Act, it transformed the democratic Germany and turned it into a legal dictorship.
3.
How am I pulling the Bible out of context!!!! I just quoted from the Bible. If you have read, you would know that is the real verse.

I am starting to think someone pays Zaki to try and "brainwash" us...

but, there goes my crazy theories again...*puts tin-foil on head*

Anyway, to get on topic, Bush was an ok president. He wasn't the worst one. Also, half of the presidents aren't even remembered by most people, so, before you go saying he was a bad president, do some research on all the past presidents, then come back and say he was terrible.

Why would I try to brainwash you? And into what? A better Christian?

He denied embroynic stem cell research that could have saved millions of lives. He invaded Iraq and didn't evacuate which broke a pledge to America.

I am not comparing George W. Bush to other presidents. I am judging him by the quality of his term as presdient.

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Post by Rotaretilbo on Wed Mar 18, 2009 11:33 pm

Well, despite the specific series of verses that clearly state the relinquishing of the dietary restriction of Jews (of which, I am not; the Bible does not hold non-Jews to every single one of the ancient laws of the Jews, just the ten commandments) already having been posted, I will post it again, just for you, Zaki.

Acts 10 wrote:9About noon the following day as they were on their journey and approaching the city, Peter went up on the roof to pray. 10He became hungry and wanted something to eat, and while the meal was being prepared, he fell into a trance. 11He saw heaven opened and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners. 12It contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles of the earth and birds of the air.

13Then a voice told him, "Kill and eat."

14"Surely not, Lord!" Peter replied. "I have never eaten anything impure or unclean."

15The voice spoke to him a second time, "Do not call anything impure that God has made clean." 16This happened three times, and immediately the sheet was taken back to heaven.

_________________
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Post by Rasq'uire'laskar on Wed Mar 18, 2009 11:43 pm

Zaki90 wrote:
Wow...

WTF,
You just denied the Bible. Jewish or not Jewish, why would it matter?!?!
Zaki, I get the feeling that we're hammering into a reinforced concrete wall, but there's probably not all that much difference between such a wall and the outer layers of your skull.

Jesus came to save us from our sins. Sacrifice of atonement is no longer neccessary. Neither is a diet that was trimmed to desert living.
Did you not catch this quote, with which we PROVIDED YOU?
kslidz wrote:9About noon the following day as they were on their journey and approaching the city, Peter went up on the roof to pray. 10He became hungry and wanted something to eat, and while the meal was being prepared, he fell into a trance. 11He saw heaven opened and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners. 12It contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles of the earth and birds of the air. 13Then a voice told him, "Get up, Peter. Kill and eat."
14"Surely not, Lord!" Peter replied. "I have never eaten anything impure or unclean."

15The voice spoke to him a second time, "Do not call anything impure that God has made clean."

16This happened three times, and immediately the sheet was taken back to heaven.

17While Peter was wondering about the meaning of the vision, the men sent by Cornelius found out where Simon's house was and stopped at the gate. 18They called out, asking if Simon who was known as Peter was staying there.

Zaki wrote:Christains believe in the Bible, but many do not follow every word it says.
What is the problem with quoting the Old Testament. Do you not use Adam and Eve from the Bible?
We use the whole bible. However, another section countermands the sections you provided.

Zaki wrote:And I just got a link pointing to Joel Osteen saying that you cannot eat pork.
Congratulations. I can get links to a DOZEN Islamic clerics who swear upon the Quran that it is the duty of ALL MUSLIMS to slaughter non-believers, down to the livestock.

Zaki wrote:But Saddam Hussien was still legally elected and Iraq was still under democratic rule.
So techanically, Iraq is and was a democratic country.
Was not. Saddam employed many tricks to keep the minority Ba'ath party in power, including the nerve-gassing of Kurds.

Zaki wrote:
1.
I am holding a grudge against those who are unwilling to keep to the bounds of their own religon.

See I can't find there being a removal of the limitations of dietary patterns. I can sure as hell see a beginning of the limitation.
We provided you with the order that countermanded it. You blatantly ignored it. This is what you're suffering from:
Do you Think Former President Bush was a bad president? 2.0 - Page 3 Conspiracy_theories

Zaki wrote:2.
Hitler was both a chancellor and a dictator. He was first a chancellor and then overthrew the government and became the dictator. Known as the Enabling Act, it transformed the democratic Germany and turned it into a legal dictorship.
Saddam barely even needed legal pretenses. He just had the police and the military enforcing his work.

Zaki wrote:3.
How am I pulling the Bible out of context!!!! I just quoted from the Bible. If you have read, you would know that is the real verse.
Yes, but you are only using verses that support your side. You are ignoring the stuff we provided to disprove it.
You're like that one nutjob rapper who claims that the bible is an astrology book, given that "The SON of God" equals "The SUN" and "Twelve Apostles" equals "Twelve Months", despite the fact that the whole bible is riddled with warnings against astrology and seers.

Zaki wrote:He denied embroynic stem cell research that could have saved millions of lives.
He denied FEDERAL FUNDING to these researches, when they were controversial and already had a lot of funding.

Don't you muslims believe that abortion is WRONG?

Zaki wrote:He invaded Iraq and didn't evacuate which broke a pledge to America.
He never gave a timetable for withdrawal. He never made such a pledge.

Zaki wrote:I am not comparing George W. Bush to other presidents. I am judging him by the quality of his term as presdient.
Which was pretty good, but spun by the media. Oh, right, you claim that the government CONTROLS the media, when the past eight years are proof of the EXACT OPPOSITE.
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Post by Gold Spartan on Thu Mar 19, 2009 6:28 am

Funny how the discussion on Bush's presidency has devolved to what we can eat.
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Post by BBJynne on Thu Mar 19, 2009 7:55 am

I think it's funny that Zaki is telling us what our religion is.

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Post by KristallNacht on Thu Mar 19, 2009 9:18 am

Rasq'uire'laskar wrote:I'm sorry, but that is incorrect.
http://www.debunk911myths.org/topics/Pentagon

I never said it was missile. If you've seen the only released video, it's not the size of a 747, more the size of a G5. Also, the CIA/FBI confiscated all other possible video of the craft from nearby buildings.

And about the "eyewitnesses" god forbid the government is smart enough to pay people off and the like.

They have video!!! Why would they not just put the myths to rest by showing it?

also, the straight up PHYSICS of the situation wouldn't ALLOW a 747 to hit the pentagon at that angle (and without far more debris) as that side of the pentagon is a steep decent from directly over the highway, and 747s aren't that controllable.

Also, pentagon heavy weapons experts have even said that the crash site smelled more like loads of explosives than of burning jet fuel.

Rasq'uire'laskar wrote:
KristallNacht wrote:and magnet, so...intel about WMDs in Iraq are more important that Intel about Al Queda attacking the World Trade Centers? (we had that y'know)
Yeah, just like we had intelligence pointing towards the fact that Japan would attack Pearl Harbor. There were a whole bunch of other places they could have attacked, and intelligence pointed that way too.

That's 2 different things. This intel was from within the Al Quida chain of command saying a single specific target. The only thing that changed was the date.


These are all things i saw a while ago on the history channel, so I can't exactly provide sauce.
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Post by KristallNacht on Thu Mar 19, 2009 9:21 am

Maginot Line wrote:Erm... he ordered his military to disband, dress as civillians and fight the Americans... that's more or less a terrorist... so... if he ordered his military to do that... I don't think he's really against terrorists... and, there were lots of little terrorist peoples running around Iraq before we hit them...

That's not 'being a terrorist' that's URBAN WARFARE. Plus saddam's didn't drop their uniforms. Those un-uniformed individuals fighting against america were extremists. Some literally dropped out of school, and got visas to go to Iraq to fight america. The reason on their Visas? 'Jihad' and I'm not joking.
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Post by KristallNacht on Thu Mar 19, 2009 9:23 am

kslidz wrote:9About noon the following day as they were on their journey and approaching the city, Peter went up on the roof to pray. 10He became hungry and wanted something to eat, and while the meal was being prepared, he fell into a trance. 11He saw heaven opened and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners. 12It contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles of the earth and birds of the air. 13Then a voice told him, "Get up, Peter. Kill and eat."
14"Surely not, Lord!" Peter replied. "I have never eaten anything impure or unclean."

15The voice spoke to him a second time, "Do not call anything impure that God has made clean."

16This happened three times, and immediately the sheet was taken back to heaven.

17While Peter was wondering about the meaning of the vision, the men sent by Cornelius found out where Simon's house was and stopped at the gate. 18They called out, asking if Simon who was known as Peter was staying there.



I wasn't aware Opium was THAT popular back then...oh wait..i did know that...
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Post by KristallNacht on Thu Mar 19, 2009 9:30 am

Zaki90 wrote:
I said at a time, a good leader and a dictatorship government would be a good match and would work. Yes, a good leader would become corrupt, but until the good leader becomes corrupt you have a perfect country.

Lenin understood that his country would have no crime if his people didn't WANT.

Rasq'uire'laskar wrote:
Was not. Saddam employed many tricks to keep the minority Ba'ath party in power, including the nerve-gassing of Kurds.

HBO Films: House of Saddam

true story

Rotaretilbo wrote:Zaki, but that logic, I could argue that Hitler was not a dictator, he was a chancellor. He was appointed by Bismark and his Nazi buddies in Congress "temporarily" removed limitations to his power so that he could handle the war more efficiently.

Doesn't change the fact he was a great leader!
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Post by Rasq'uire'laskar on Thu Mar 19, 2009 9:46 am

KristallNacht wrote:
I never said it was missile. If you've seen the only released video, it's not the size of a 747, more the size of a G5.
The released video was on that sight. It was the size of a 747.

KristallNacht wrote:Also, the CIA/FBI confiscated all other possible video of the craft from nearby buildings.
Except that the cameras at the Sheraton weren't pointed in that direction.

KristallNacht wrote:And about the "eyewitnesses" god forbid the government is smart enough to pay people off and the like.
>.>
So, in an atmosphere where everyone is trying to uncover a conspiracy, you have the story of a lifetime, and Geraldo is only one phone call away, over one hundred people are tracked down and paid withing minutes without anybody noticing, either through suspicious FBI activity or auditing...

KristallNacht wrote:They have video!!! Why would they not just put the myths to rest by showing it?
And they've released it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L75Gga92WO8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAaP4Z3zls8

KristallNacht wrote:also, the straight up PHYSICS of the situation wouldn't ALLOW a 747 to hit the pentagon at that angle (and without far more debris) as that side of the pentagon is a steep decent from directly over the highway, and 747s aren't that controllable.
Wrong. 747s are actually quite controllable.
And I've been there. It's maybe a 100 foot drop over 300 feet. If you've got a death wish and several hundred hours in the simulator, you can do it.
http://www.cs.purdue.edu/homes/cmh/simulation/

KristallNacht wrote:Also, pentagon heavy weapons experts have even said that the crash site smelled more like loads of explosives than of burning jet fuel.
Quote please? Full transcript, not edited by the Truthers.

KristallNacht wrote:That's 2 different things. This intel was from within the Al Quida chain of command saying a single specific target. The only thing that changed was the date.
These are all things i saw a while ago on the history channel, so I can't exactly provide sauce.
Do try.
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Post by Rasq'uire'laskar on Thu Mar 19, 2009 9:51 am

And riddle me this:

If the Government staged ONLY the Pentagon attack, why?
Assuming they knew about the exact date of the 9-11 attacks and the exact targets, why hijack an airplane, pretend it's something else, and put it through a run that the other plane couldn't do, into a section of the Pentagon that was unoccupied, and creating an event that is sorely unpublicized?

The answer: They didn't. And the 747 did.
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Post by KristallNacht on Thu Mar 19, 2009 10:13 am

gotta go to class, will full reply later


so...those youtube videos show a 747? lolololol (yes i did watch them) whatever it was, it WASNT a 747
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Post by Zaki90 on Thu Mar 19, 2009 12:30 pm

Rotaretilbo wrote:Well, despite the specific series of verses that clearly state the relinquishing of the dietary restriction of Jews (of which, I am not; the Bible does not hold non-Jews to every single one of the ancient laws of the Jews, just the ten commandments) already having been posted, I will post it again, just for you, Zaki.

Acts 10 wrote:9About noon the following day as they were on their journey and approaching the city, Peter went up on the roof to pray. 10He became hungry and wanted something to eat, and while the meal was being prepared, he fell into a trance. 11He saw heaven opened and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners. 12It contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles of the earth and birds of the air.

13Then a voice told him, "Kill and eat."

14"Surely not, Lord!" Peter replied. "I have never eaten anything impure or unclean."

15The voice spoke to him a second time, "Do not call anything impure that God has made clean." 16This happened three times, and immediately the sheet was taken back to heaven.

Srry, i missed it.

This quote is rather controversial.

Peter has no idea what the voice is. He guesses it is God. But then, it calls to not call anything impure that God has made clean. Thus denying God's word. The voice sounds evil. Would God tell you to "kill and eat" what he has called "impure"? How does Peter know the sheet was taken to Heaven?

This very much sounds like the Devil. It sounds like the Devil is disguised. Which is possible as said in the Book of John. The Devil is tempting Peter into doing something he knows is wrong.

Would God tempt you into eating food he explained is impure and why? Would God tell to kill and eat an animal that eats its own crap?

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Post by Zaki90 on Thu Mar 19, 2009 1:39 pm

quote="Rasq'uire'laskar"]
Zaki90 wrote:
Wow...

WTF,
You just denied the Bible. Jewish or not Jewish, why would it matter?!?!
Zaki, I get the feeling that we're hammering into a reinforced concrete wall, but there's probably not all that much difference between such a wall and the outer layers of your skull.

Jesus came to save us from our sins. Sacrifice of atonement is no longer neccessary. Neither is a diet that was trimmed to desert living.
Did you not catch this quote, with which we PROVIDED YOU?
kslidz wrote:9About noon the following day as they were on their journey and approaching the city, Peter went up on the roof to pray. 10He became hungry and wanted something to eat, and while the meal was being prepared, he fell into a trance. 11He saw heaven opened and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners. 12It contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles of the earth and birds of the air. 13Then a voice told him, "Get up, Peter. Kill and eat."
14"Surely not, Lord!" Peter replied. "I have never eaten anything impure or unclean."

15The voice spoke to him a second time, "Do not call anything impure that God has made clean."

16This happened three times, and immediately the sheet was taken back to heaven.

17While Peter was wondering about the meaning of the vision, the men sent by Cornelius found out where Simon's house was and stopped at the gate. 18They called out, asking if Simon who was known as Peter was staying there.
I answered it with a quote on Rot.
Zaki wrote:Christains believe in the Bible, but many do not follow every word it says.
What is the problem with quoting the Old Testament. Do you not use Adam and Eve from the Bible?
We use the whole bible. However, another section countermands the sections you provided.
I actually, if I were to read the entire verse. God gives reasons why not to eat these impure animals. Why would God change his mind?

Zaki wrote:And I just got a link pointing to Joel Osteen saying that you cannot eat pork.
Congratulations. I can get links to a DOZEN Islamic clerics who swear upon the Quran that it is the duty of ALL MUSLIMS to slaughter non-believers, down to the livestock
Actually, I'm sure you have taken most of this clerics out of context. And I would love to see these links.

Zaki wrote:But Saddam Hussien was still legally elected and Iraq was still under democratic rule.
So techanically, Iraq is and was a democratic country.
Was not. Saddam employed many tricks to keep the minority Ba'ath party in power, including the nerve-gassing of Kurds.

Was to, Saddam's title is still 5th President of Iraq.
[img]Do you Think Former President Bush was a bad president? 2.0 - Page 3 Saddam11[/img]
Zaki wrote:

1.
I am holding a grudge against those who are unwilling to keep to the bounds of their own religon.
See I can't find there being a removal of the limitations of dietary patterns. I can sure as hell see a beginning of the limitation.
We provided you with the order that countermanded it. You blatantly ignored it. This is what you're suffering from:
Do you Think Former President Bush was a bad president? 2.0 - Page 3 Conspiracy_theories
[/quote]
I was to busy to multi-quote a bunch of other people. I didn't notice it. Now I did.

Zaki wrote:2.
Hitler was both a chancellor and a dictator. He was first a chancellor and then overthrew the government and became the dictator. Known as the Enabling Act, it transformed the democratic Germany and turned it into a legal dictorship.
Saddam barely even needed legal pretenses. He just had the police and the military enforcing his work.
Saddam Hussein's title is still 5th President of Iraq. Even my World Encyclopedia says it. My grandma who taught Saddam Hussein's children English says it. My mother who remembers having to hide from Saddam's men who were going to strip her from her family and send her to Iran or kill her says it.[img]Do you Think Former President Bush was a bad president? 2.0 - Page 3 Saddam11[/img]
Zaki wrote:3.
How am I pulling the Bible out of context!!!! I just quoted from the Bible. If you have read, you would know that is the real verse.
Yes, but you are only using verses that support your side. You are ignoring the stuff we provided to disprove it.
You're like that one nutjob rapper who claims that the bible is an astrology book, given that "The SON of God" equals "The SUN" and "Twelve Apostles" equals "Twelve Months", despite the fact that the whole bible is riddled with warnings against astrology and seers.
I actually used the Bible to make you a better Christian. I do not think Jesus is the Son of God. I think that the Bible was corrupted. Not all of it. Why I could almost be called a Unitarian Christian.
I believe in the Twelve Apostles.

Zaki wrote:He denied embroynic stem cell research that could have saved millions of lives.
He denied FEDERAL FUNDING to these researches, when they were controversial and already had a lot of funding.

Don't you muslims believe that abortion is WRONG?
Still, that funding could have helped a ton. Ya, it was controversial, but an aborted fetus is not going to achieve life. The more funding the better.

As a Muslim, I have a varied opinion. I think it is ok to have an abortion if the parents are unsuitable to have a child. Like teenagers.

Zaki wrote:He invaded Iraq and didn't evacuate which broke a pledge to America.
He never gave a timetable for withdrawal. He never made such a pledge.

Sorry, not a withdrawal. He said to end major operations in Iraq. There was a banner that said "Mission Accomplished"
In 2007, he sent out 21,500 soldiers to Iraq.
[quote="Zaki"]I am not comparing George W. Bush to other presidents. I am judging him by the quality of his term as president.
Which was pretty good, but spun by the media. Oh, right, you claim that the government CONTROLS the media, when the past eight years are proof of the EXACT OPPOSITE.

I meant that the government influences the media. And this is vice versa as well. Each influence each other. It took a month to get over Obama's dog. It was also the reason why George W. Bush is portrayed as a dumb piece of shit around the world.[quote]

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Post by Felix on Thu Mar 19, 2009 1:59 pm

I believe the bible is a joke, and most of it is just made up crap...

Anyway, I don't really take the bible seriously most of the time. It has nice ideas here and there, but it's hard to hold facts on the thing.

The bible is more like "guidelines".

Oh, and God gave us free will, so I can eat pork when ever I want...
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Post by CivBase on Thu Mar 19, 2009 2:23 pm

Felix wrote:I believe the bible is a joke, and most of it is just made up crap...

Anyway, I don't really take the bible seriously most of the time. It has nice ideas here and there, but it's hard to hold facts on the thing.

The bible is more like "guidelines".

Oh, and God gave us free will, so I can eat pork when ever I want...
*is so very tempted to chase Felix with a spoon*

Believe what you want, but remember that not everyone believes that. I actually have more of a problem with this belief than with darwinism.

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Post by tiny tim on Thu Mar 19, 2009 4:59 pm

i really hate to get this started, but what is wrong with Darwinism?

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Post by BBJynne on Thu Mar 19, 2009 5:52 pm

civ doesn't like it


/that discussion

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Post by Rasq'uire'laskar on Thu Mar 19, 2009 6:29 pm

KristallNacht wrote:gotta go to class, will full reply later


so...those youtube videos show a 747? lolololol (yes i did watch them) whatever it was, it WASNT a 747
Yes, it was a 747.

Now, if it wasn't a 747, how did the government truck in fifty tons of 747 debris in broad daylight?
Rasq'uire'laskar wrote:And riddle me this:

If the Government staged ONLY the Pentagon attack, why?
Assuming they knew about the exact date of the 9-11 attacks and the exact targets, why hijack an airplane, pretend it's something else, and put it through a run that the other plane couldn't do, into a section of the Pentagon that was unoccupied, and creating an event that is sorely unpublicized?

The answer: They didn't. And the 747 did.

Zaki90 wrote:
Srry, i missed it.

This quote is rather controversial.

Peter has no idea what the voice is. He guesses it is God.
Wait... just how did Mohamed know it was God talking to him?

Zaki90 wrote:But then, it calls to not call anything impure that God has made clean. Thus denying God's word. The voice sounds evil. Would God tell you to "kill and eat" what he has called "impure"?
Do Muslims do sacrifices?
No.

Jesus's death on the cross meant that all of our sins were paid for.
The animals you have listed were 'ceremonially unclean'. As with the animal and grain sacrifices, it was nulled when Jesus became the ultimate sacrifice.

Zaki90 wrote:How does Peter know the sheet was taken to Heaven?
How did Mohamed know he was taken up to heaven? How did Mohamed know it was an angel he encountered?

Zaki90 wrote:
Zaki wrote:Christains believe in the Bible, but many do not follow every word it says.
What is the problem with quoting the Old Testament. Do you not use Adam and Eve from the Bible?
We use the whole bible. However, another section countermands the sections you provided.
I actually, if I were to read the entire verse. God gives reasons why not to eat these impure animals. Why would God change his mind?
The reasons he gave were that the animals were ceremonially unclean. Ceremonial cleanliness and sacrifice no longer applied after the Crucifixion.

Zaki90 wrote:
Zaki wrote:And I just got a link pointing to Joel Osteen saying that you cannot eat pork.
Congratulations. I can get links to a DOZEN Islamic clerics who swear upon the Quran that it is the duty of ALL MUSLIMS to slaughter non-believers, down to the livestock
Actually, I'm sure you have taken most of this clerics out of context. And I would love to see these links.
Google these:
Suleiman Al-Satari
Ikrime Sabri

Zaki90 wrote:
Zaki90 wrote:
Zaki wrote:But Saddam Hussien was still legally elected and Iraq was still under democratic rule.
So techanically, Iraq is and was a democratic country.
Was not. Saddam employed many tricks to keep the minority Ba'ath party in power, including the nerve-gassing of Kurds.

Was to, Saddam's title is still 5th President of Iraq.
Do you Think Former President Bush was a bad president? 2.0 - Page 3 Saddam11
Quote from wikipedia...
In 1979 al-Bakr started to make treaties with Syria, also under Ba'athist leadership, that would lead to unification between the two countries. Syrian President Hafez al-Assad would become deputy leader in a union, and this would drive Saddam to obscurity. Saddam acted to secure his grip on power. He forced the ailing al-Bakr to resign on July 16, 1979, and formally assumed the presidency.

Shortly afterwards, he convened an assembly of Ba'ath party leaders on July 22, 1979. During the assembly, which he ordered videotaped (see [19]), Saddam claimed to have found spies and conspirators within the Ba'ath Party and read out the names of 68 members that he alleged to be such fifth columnists. These members were labelled "disloyal" and were removed from the room one by one and taken into custody. After the list was read, Saddam congratulated those still seated in the room for their past and future loyalty. The 68 people arrested at the meeting were subsequently put on trial, and 22 were sentenced to execution for treason.
The Shi'a majority were long a source of opposition to the government's secular policies, and the Ba'ath Party was increasingly concerned about potential Shi'a Islamist influence following the Iranian Revolution of 1979. The Kurds of northern Iraq (who are Sunni Muslims but not Arabs) were also permanently hostile to the Ba'athist party's pan-Arabism. To maintain power Saddam tended either to provide them with benefits so as to co-opt them into the regime, or to take repressive measures against them. The major instruments for accomplishing this control were the paramilitary and police organizations. Beginning in 1974, Taha Yassin Ramadan, a close associate of Saddam, commanded the People's Army, which was responsible for internal security. As the Ba'ath Party's paramilitary, the People's Army acted as a counterweight against any coup attempts by the regular armed forces. In addition to the People's Army, the Department of General Intelligence (Mukhabarat) was the most notorious arm of the state security system, feared for its use of torture and assassination.

Zaki wrote:
I actually used the Bible to make you a better Christian.
Sorry, but you are wrong.

Zaki wrote:I do not think Jesus is the Son of God.
Then you aren't using the bible, are you?

Zaki wrote:I think that the Bible was corrupted. Not all of it.
Remember the Dead Sea Scrolls? They correlated with the gospels really well.

Zaki wrote:He denied embroynic stem cell research that could have saved millions of lives.
He denied FEDERAL FUNDING to these researches, when they were controversial and already had a lot of funding.

Don't you muslims believe that abortion is WRONG?
Still, that funding could have helped a ton. Ya, it was controversial, but an aborted fetus is not going to achieve life. The more funding the better.

As a Muslim, I have a varied opinion. I think it is ok to have an abortion if the parents are unsuitable to have a child. Like teenagers.[/quote]
Abortion is wrong in the first place.
With science, you don't get anything done just by throwing money at it. That funding went to other places, like Medicare. Or energy research. Or even space exploration.

Zaki wrote:
I meant that the government influences the media. And this is vice versa as well. Each influence each other. It took a month to get over Obama's dog. It was also the reason why George W. Bush is portrayed as a dumb piece of shit around the world.
No, you meant that the Government CONTROLS the media, enough to brainwash an entire populace into invading a nation.
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Post by Zaki90 on Thu Mar 19, 2009 8:19 pm

1. Because, God did not tell Mohhamed to "kill and eat", God did not tempt Mohhamed. God showed ways in order to worship God, be a better person, and good values.

It simple logic. Would the Devil tell Mohhamed go destroy the idols, would the Devil tell Mohhamed to pray to God 5 times a day, would the Devil tell Mohhamed to convert rather than kill the idol worshipers.

2. Do Muslims do sacrifices?
Yes, 5 times a day every day. I sacrifice my time to pray. In the month of Ramadan, I sacrifice eating and drinking till sun down all 30 days. I sacrficed staying at a mosque listening to lecture for 3 hours.
I sacrifice goats in Abraham's name. I sacrifice going to Hajj for a week. Etc...

In fact, every good Muslim does this.

Do not say Muslims do not sacrifice.

3.

It says nothing of Suleiman Al-Satari being a cleric. I want a real link. Not a extremist's name.
I somewhat agree. This man is not a Terroist. He is an anti-semitist. He has a case of Judeophobia.
He speaks for those against Zionism.

4.
Leviticus 11:44-For I am the LORD your God: ye shall therefore sanctify yourselves, and ye shall be holy; for I am holy: neither shall ye defile yourselves with any manner of creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Cermonially??!?!?!
Pigs eat there own shit. Would you eat an animal that eats shit. Litterally!!!

Would you eat an animal that eats this:
Do you Think Former President Bush was a bad president? 2.0 - Page 3 Crap10

5.

His title is still 5th President of Iraq. If you like it or not.

6.

The Bible? You mean the New Testament. That all you have used.
There is no place in the Old Testament the declares Jesus is the Son of God.

7.
And who said those werren't already corrected.

8.

Or the Iraq War...
Still, Embroynic Stem Cells were a huge oppurnity to lift humanity foward in the field of health. It could have opened millions of doors.

9.
No, you cannot tell me what I mean. And I mean the Goverment influences the media. Well, not the entire populace. Not invading a nation.

Obama used the democratic media to help himself achieve presidency. Everyone loves Obama thanks to the media. Wheither he is out at a party or giving a speech about how he is going lift the Embroynic Stem Cell ban.

Why do you think canidates run a campagian. They are making there own media in order to achieve goals.

I am going to come back and fix all the spelling mistakes later.

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Post by Felix on Thu Mar 19, 2009 8:58 pm

To point out Zaki, I still don't like Obama, even with all the medie stuff on him
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Post by CivBase on Thu Mar 19, 2009 9:06 pm

tiny tim wrote:i really hate to get this started, but what is wrong with Darwinism?
I see you haven't seen any of the religious debates yet. There's nothing wrong with it... I just don't like it. I don't like Islam or Hinduism either; they're just not my beliefs.

BBJynne wrote:civ doesn't like it

/that discussion
That pretty much sums it up, but I have enough decency to stop it here.

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