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Post by Rasq'uire'laskar on Sat Mar 07, 2009 11:40 pm

Just got back from Watchmen.
For those of you who don't know, it's based off of an Alan Moore comic, the same guy who did "V for Vendetta" and "The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen." Therefore, it has to be at least halfway good.

In summary, Superheroes have allowed the United States to win the Vietnam War (In one of the coolest allusions to Apocalypse Now! I've seen) and Nixon has won the presidency at least five times, since the 22nd Amendment was never passed. Reagan is in office, loose morals are abound, Russia has stockpiled 50,000 nukes, and our ace in the hole can't stop them.

But, whilst the character of Rorschach and others were somewhat interesting, something drove me away. In a word, sex. There was an attempted rape scene, and then the same guy gunned down a Vietnamese woman 7 months pregnant with his child, a porno book that we actually saw the open pages of, a Superman with an exposed sexual member throughout the movie, hookers abound, and two lesbians found dead with blood smeared on the walls. Now, Apocalypse Now! had some equally bad parts in it (OK, not quite) but what kept me going through that movie was decent pacing and development. I feel that I could have finished the movie, had the Superman and the rape scene been toned down, but that's irrelevant.

When is it too much? When does the sex start dragging down a movie, and where does it help?

Debate.
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Post by KrAzY on Sat Mar 07, 2009 11:45 pm

sex helps for comedic factor... or can be used to make a character seem more "evil"

but rape and stuff like that shouldn't be shown in movies at all... it doesn't add to the plot (unless its a psychological movie ABOUT the rape)... but for super hero movies it is unneeded...


not a big watchmen fan... i'm not seeing the movie in theaters
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Post by PiEdude on Sat Mar 07, 2009 11:48 pm

Looney Limeys?
(Watchmen was originally British)
(I think)
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Post by Rasq'uire'laskar on Sat Mar 07, 2009 11:59 pm

The thing is, I've most often seen sex scenes used to show character development, as a red flag saying "It's OK! They like each other now! They're in love!"
Which, unfortunately, is about as cheap as a laugh track in a sitcom. You are TELLING the audience what to think, as opposed to showing them two people and letting them form their own opinions.

The rape scene was a subplot, as the woman whose mother was almost-raped finds out that the guy ended up being her father through a consensual relationship... But I'm unsure whether this added to the plot.

As for sex scenes in other movies, I often fast-forward through the one in Terminator. But it was neccessary, as Reese was the father of John Connor, and he had 48 hours to do it.
The near-rape scene in V for Vendetta (The one with the priest, not the one with the Fingermen that barely got off the ground) I fast forward through it, and I kinda wonder if it was neccessary, as other devices could have been used to make the priest evil, but I guess I'm no expert.

Watchmen... It's not quite a superhero movie, as the superheroes in question have no superpowers. They are just vigilantes.
The naked guy, however, does have a plethora of superpowers at his command, and is sort of a central figure in the story.

Meh, it looked good in the previews. And Alan Moore, the guy who wrote "Watchmen", is British, but he wrote it for DC Comics.

Pass the crumpets... Jolly good.
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Post by KristallNacht on Sun Mar 08, 2009 4:04 am

It was following the comic.

and rasq, the real question is

"how gay are you?"
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Post by Rasq'uire'laskar on Sun Mar 08, 2009 2:50 pm

KristallNacht wrote:It was following the comic.

and rasq, the real question is

"how gay are you?"
I am straight, NT. I just prefer actual character development and story to two sweaty naked bodies rolling around baring all.
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Post by KristallNacht on Sun Mar 08, 2009 6:18 pm

good thing its a 3hour movie!!!

plenty of time for both


and some porn has great character development >.>
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Post by Toaster on Sun Mar 08, 2009 6:49 pm

Rasq wrote:I am straight, NT. I just prefer actual character development and story to two sweaty naked bodies rolling around baring all.

well whether you like it or not, sex is a big part of a relationship.

Yes, some scenes are gratuitous, but some are emotional and well done. One example is the on from terminator. It's not like you heard sarah connor moaning as she climaxed. It was a respectable scene.

There's a big difference between San Andreas hot coffee mod and the mass effect sex scene.
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Post by Felix on Sun Mar 08, 2009 6:50 pm

KristallNacht wrote:good thing its a 3hour movie!!!

plenty of time for both


and some porn has great character development >.>

You and your porn...

was the movie at least good? I mean, if you look away and cover your ears during those sex scenes, is the movie still a worth while film?
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Post by Rasq'uire'laskar on Sun Mar 08, 2009 10:49 pm

ReconToaster wrote:
Rasq wrote:I am straight, NT. I just prefer actual character development and story to two sweaty naked bodies rolling around baring all.

well whether you like it or not, sex is a big part of a relationship.
I realize that. However, I've seen it used in place of real relationships in a lot of movies.

ReconToaster wrote:Yes, some scenes are gratuitous, but some are emotional and well done. One example is the on from terminator. It's not like you heard sarah connor moaning as she climaxed. It was a respectable scene.
And I gave that one as an example of such a scene done well.
Felix wrote:
was the movie at least good? I mean, if you look away and cover your ears during those sex scenes, is the movie still a worth while film?
From what I saw, it's somewhere between "V for Vendetta" and "The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen".
All of which were written by the same guy.
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Post by Cheese on Mon Mar 09, 2009 3:30 am

Unfortunately in film (especially those revolving around killer Austrian robots) there often isn't enough time to show gradual character relationship development - partially because there is no gradual development. This is usually resolved with the kiss or sex scene to show, as you said, 'They like each other now! They're in love!'

That's just the way it usually has to be in action films, because otherwise we'd have Kurt Russle taking an extra hour to stargaze and whatnot instead of chasing explosions.

Also, I always find it hard to believe they're in love. More often than not they're just caught in the heat of the moment. So when the killer robot replicants (Screamers had no sex scene... it just didn't make any damn sense) are finally beaten and the flames die down - they're probably not going to get married.

So I always thought of the sex scene as a way to include a relationship in a film without devoting too much screen-time. As that, I suppose it works.

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Post by PiEdude on Mon Mar 09, 2009 6:12 am

Chasing explosions?
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Post by Cheese on Mon Mar 09, 2009 8:14 am

PiEman wrote:Chasing explosions?

Kurt Russle is too hardcore to run away from the explosions: here merely chases them with his back... Razz

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Post by kslidz on Mon Mar 09, 2009 9:36 am

i agree
also like in 300 the rape scene was too much i fast forward instead of just looking away like in the nude scenes

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Post by Gold Spartan on Mon Mar 09, 2009 9:21 pm

??? There was a rape scene?
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Post by Cheese on Tue Mar 10, 2009 4:26 am

Gold Spartan5 wrote:??? There was a rape scene?

Well teeeccccchnically it wasn't a rape scene because she agreed to it (and he shouted 'surprise!'). But he was blackmailing her a tad. It was the guy from the senate and thingies wife.

EDIT: lol'd at toaster's post. Even though I like the movie


Last edited by Cheese on Tue Mar 10, 2009 5:46 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Toaster on Tue Mar 10, 2009 4:36 am

kslidz wrote:i agree
also like in 300 the rape scene was too much i fast forward instead of just looking away like in the nude scenes

I felt the same way... the urge to fast forward... throughout the entire movie bounce
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Post by Vigil on Tue Mar 10, 2009 7:29 am

To set the record straight, Alan Moore is British.

I haven't read Watchmen, but I do plan on going to see the film.

As for sex scenes in films, I'm going to go with Recon. If it's done tastefully, I'm fine with it.

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Post by KristallNacht on Tue Mar 10, 2009 9:19 am

my guess is you people that think sex =/= relationship/character development haven't HAD sex.

Sex is a serious connection when the individuals want to be. After having sex with someone, you're totally uninhibited around them. you sahre that connection, and that bit even applies to one night stands
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Post by Arty on Tue Mar 10, 2009 3:03 pm

I don't mind sex scenes...

But I saw the Watchmen with my family, and throughout the movie I thought the sex scenes were slightly too extended.

I don't want to sit next to my gawking father while the Silk Spectre is being fondled by 3 glowing men...
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Post by Rotaretilbo on Wed Mar 11, 2009 12:54 am

I've seen sex scenes done tastefully, and I must say, Watchmen was not one of them. Normally, in a movie, a sex scene is passionate kissing, with removal of clothing when breathing. Usually, both parties will get to or almost get to complete nudity, there might be a thrust or two, and, more often than not, the only real nudity we see is s loose nipple or, in some cases, a brief crotch shot, and then it will cut somewhere else. Conversely, the Archimedes sex scene was drawn out way too long. The passionate kissing is there, they strip down, and then she gets on him and starts thrusting. Cue next scene. Hey! I said cue next scene! Instead, we spend the next five minutes watching what is practically porn, moaning, thrusting, rubbing, kissing. If I wanted to watch porn, I'd watch porn. I came to Watchmen to see a movie with, you know, plot and stuff.

And certainly, Watchmen was not lacking in plot. Having not read the comic, the movie kept me guessing the whole time. Unlike most movies, while you saw lots in the trailers, it was put together in a way that revealed no plot whatsoever, even mislead you to believe you did know the plot just to make the surprise better when it was revealed that you didn't. However, I felt that the Archimedes sex scene was way overdone, and was practically expecting Silk Spectre to start giving Night Owl a blow job or something or for John to come join in for a hardcore threesome. And, of course, John's omnipresent penis was a real turn off as well. It was bad enough when Super Bad ended with all of those eye burning drawings of penis, but jeez, they might as well have put John's penis in the credits, because it got more screen time than half the cast. And I certainly didn't miss the Tijuana Bible or the lesbian porn on one of Ozy's many television sets.

However, I will say that the prostitute Rorschach scene was in good taste, since it added to that element of vile corruption that Rorschach and the Comedian seem to believe all of humanity has fallen into. But beyond that, it seemed like a lot of the nudity was unnecessary, and didn't add much to the plot itself. It was pretty clear that Silk Spectre and Night Owl were in love without spending five minutes on them having hot, sweaty sex.

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Post by KristallNacht on Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:59 am

rot, superbad had funny ass penis pictures, not eye burning

I think a better representation of your point would be Zack & Miri
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Post by Toaster on Wed Mar 11, 2009 3:37 pm

KristallNacht wrote:rot, superbad had funny ass penis pictures, not eye burning

I think a better representation of your point would be Zack & Miri

Crude humor is the devil!
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Post by Cheese on Wed Mar 11, 2009 4:16 pm

ReconToaster wrote:
KristallNacht wrote:rot, superbad had funny ass penis pictures, not eye burning

I think a better representation of your point would be Zack & Miri

Crude humor is the devil!

I thought this... well not exactly that, just that it sucked. Then I actually almost enjoyed Knocked Up and had to stab myself in the arm with a fork to compensate.

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Post by Rotaretilbo on Wed Mar 11, 2009 6:40 pm


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