[poll] Do you Think Former President Bush was a Bad President?

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[poll] Do you Think Former President Bush was a Bad President? Empty [poll] Do you Think Former President Bush was a Bad President?

Post by Zaki90 on Wed Feb 11, 2009 6:01 pm

Discuss...

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Post by Gold Spartan on Wed Feb 11, 2009 6:26 pm

No, he wasnt a bad president. But he wasnt a great one either.
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Post by Toaster on Wed Feb 11, 2009 6:58 pm

I won't say he was a good president...

But he was definitely unfairly portrayed by the media. I think the way that we have treated him is extremely disrespectful.
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Post by Gold Spartan on Wed Feb 11, 2009 7:05 pm

recon is right he deserves more respect. He's been very active in trying to destroy terrorism, he also threw a dictator off of his throne and into the execution chamber.
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Post by Toaster on Wed Feb 11, 2009 7:06 pm

Gold Spartan5 wrote:he also threw a dictator off of his throne and into the execution chamber.

I believe he was hanged bounce
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Post by Gold Spartan on Wed Feb 11, 2009 7:07 pm

Oh, then he threw him to the gallows. I thought the Iraqis gased him. Of course, I've been wrong before.
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Post by Gauz on Wed Feb 11, 2009 7:18 pm

Nope, he was hung on a holiday holy in their land, and we voted against that, but they wanted vengence.
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Post by Gold Spartan on Wed Feb 11, 2009 7:19 pm

no suprise. He only murdered 4 million Iraqies. I think he got off too easily.
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Post by XNate02 on Wed Feb 11, 2009 7:58 pm

where is the "He got shoes thrown at him LAWL" option
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Post by Dud Doodoo on Wed Feb 11, 2009 8:08 pm

Bush had some REALLY challenging things during his term that other presidents didn't, and he didn't do a bad job with them. He's been completely loyal and selfless, he gets shit thrown at him by the media(and the iraqis XD) yet he takes it and focuses on the country, no himself. Many former presidents did not have that ability.(Clinton)

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Post by Toaster on Wed Feb 11, 2009 8:46 pm

x Gauz x wrote:Nope, he was hung hanged on a holiday holy in their land, and we voted against that, but they wanted vengence.

Fixed

Dud wrote:Many former presidents did not have that ability.(Clinton)

Clinton was a great president. Kennedy slept around with quite a great many people, and he was still a great president.
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Post by CivBase on Wed Feb 11, 2009 8:54 pm

He wasn't our best president, but I think he did a good job. A few mistakes here and there, but no more than past presidents. The only reason so many hated him was because the media did.

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Post by Gold Spartan on Wed Feb 11, 2009 10:41 pm

ReconToaster wrote:Clinton was an awful president. Kennedy slept around with quite a great many people, and he was still a great president.
Fixed.
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Post by Rotaretilbo on Wed Feb 11, 2009 10:55 pm

Clinton wasn't terrible, but he wasn't great either. He wouldn't deploy troops to bail out US rangers in Somalia, and he embarrassed the country in a similar manner to Nixon, who gets all sorts of shit for Watergate. And JFK wasn't the best either. Sure, he did great with the Cuban Missile Crisis, but then, there was that whole Bay of Pigs fiasco. And while I have neutral opinions of the Vietnam War, since the left tends to strongly oppose it, I remind you that JFK pretty much started US involvement in it.

As for Bush, I think he wasn't the best, but certainly not as bad as the media made him out to be. What always amazed me about Bush was that, despite all the shit he had to deal with, the kind of which no President has seen before, he had skin made of reinforced steel and just ignored it. How his administration managed to function at all under the constant barrage of media bias that turned a large portion of the American population against them, I still can't fathom. Under such fire, I personally would have said, "Well fuck it, guys, if you want to run the country into the fucking ground, be my fucking guest. I quit."

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Post by PiEdude on Thu Feb 12, 2009 6:16 am

Do you guys only base presidents on what they do to win wars, or help others with their wars?

Clinton did wonders for the economy, despite some early mistakes and failures in Somalia.

(will continue later, my bus is coming in four minutes or less)
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Post by Vigil on Thu Feb 12, 2009 6:39 am

The way I see it is that he probably had similar issues to his predecessors.

The only difference was he wasn't at good at keeping his blunders out of the public eye.

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Post by PiEdude on Thu Feb 12, 2009 10:30 am

PiEman wrote:Do you guys only base presidents on what they do to win wars, or help others with their wars?

Clinton did wonders for the economy, despite some early mistakes and failures in Somalia.

(will continue later, my bus is coming in four minutes or less)
*continued from before*
Bush seemed to have been doing fine in the beginning, and then 9/11 struck.
The country was in panic, and in 2003 we invaded Iraq, on the assumption that the Iraqis still had WMDs including chemical weapons.

However, Bush had overlooked the fact that most of Iraq's chemical arsenal had been bagged and tagged in the 90s by the U.N.
Bush found Sadaam, and persisted in saying that they weapons were stll out there.
It has been six years, and barely any(if any at all) weapons have been found and sure as hell haven't been used against us.

alQueda had nothing in Iraq before we took out Sadaam. Now not only do they have a angry populace from which to recruit, they have American Troops patrolling the streets that they can perform live-fire practice on.
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Post by Maginot Line on Thu Feb 12, 2009 3:51 pm

Actually, an article I recently read talks about how the Iraqi's really would like the Americans and their Black Hawks, and Bombers, and well trained troops, and heavy weapons to stay, so that they don't get mortared by cowards too scared to actually stand up and fight. So no, the population is not pissed off at the US Marines there. But you don't hear of this from American Media sources. So, try reading articles from the BBC. Their articles aren't quite so biased.

Oh, and I believe American marines actually found blue prints for WMD's, PiE,... though I might be wrong... so... yeah...
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Post by PiEdude on Thu Feb 12, 2009 4:22 pm

Maginot Line wrote:Actually, an article I recently read talks about how the Iraqi's really would like the Americans and their Black Hawks, and Bombers, and well trained troops, and heavy weapons to stay, so that they don't get mortared by cowards too scared to actually stand up and fight. So no, the population is not pissed off at the US Marines there. But you don't hear of this from American Media sources. So, try reading articles from the BBC. Their articles aren't quite so biased.

Oh, and I believe American marines actually found blue prints for WMD's, PiE,... though I might be wrong... so... yeah...

The British Media is heavy monitored by the state, and they're not exactly "free press".
They report primarily on the positive sides of the war, and just about everything else the government tells them to portray positively.
The article you read was probably British.

I've heard statistics that say that something like 2/3rds of Iraqis want our troops dead. Not just gone, dead.
Many of them do want the protection, including their new government, but a majority wants us out so they can get right to killing eachother.

About the only thing we could do now, if you want to do something while the troops pull out, is divide the country into religiously divided provinces.
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Post by thane321 on Thu Feb 12, 2009 4:36 pm

PiEman wrote:
Maginot Line wrote:Actually, an article I recently read talks about how the Iraqi's really would like the Americans and their Black Hawks, and Bombers, and well trained troops, and heavy weapons to stay, so that they don't get mortared by cowards too scared to actually stand up and fight. So no, the population is not pissed off at the US Marines there. But you don't hear of this from American Media sources. So, try reading articles from the BBC. Their articles aren't quite so biased.

Oh, and I believe American marines actually found blue prints for WMD's, PiE,... though I might be wrong... so... yeah...

The British Media is heavy monitored by the state, and they're not exactly "free press".
They report primarily on the positive sides of the war, and just about everything else the government tells them to portray positively.
The article you read was probably British.

I've heard statistics that say that something like 2/3rds of Iraqis want our troops dead. Not just gone, dead.
Many of them do want the protection, including their new government, but a majority wants us out so they can get right to killing eachother.

About the only thing we could do now, if you want to do something while the troops pull out, is divide the country into religiously divided provinces.


every source is reliable however most sources (on this topic) will have a bias (i think Razz )
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Post by Lord Pheonix on Thu Feb 12, 2009 4:57 pm

Divide into religiously divided provinces?



Do you have ANY idea how horrible of an idea that is?

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Post by PiEdude on Thu Feb 12, 2009 6:13 pm

Um, let me rephrase that.

Divide the religious groups into their own provinces.
Yes, I know there will be problems with that, but it's better than having them together and suicide bombing marketplaces.
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Post by Rasq'uire'laskar on Thu Feb 12, 2009 6:33 pm

ReconToaster wrote:I won't say he was a good president...

But he was definitely unfairly portrayed by the media. I think the way that we have treated him is extremely disrespectful.
Bingo!

Does anybody remember how he took charge after 9/11? He didn't usurp power like so many claim; he rose to the occasion. Remember how he was asking Congress to increase oversight on Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac?

I just... when I saw him after the inauguration, he was happy. It was like the burden of the whole world had been lifted off his shoulders, and he was free.
Go look at how much he's aged. It's amazing and sad at the same moment.

ReconToaster wrote:
Clinton was a great president. Kennedy slept around with quite a great many people, and he was still a great president.
I can't agree with you here. Kennedy had his shining moment during the Cuban Missile Crises, but there was the Bay of Pigs invasion, the botched attempt to kill Castro (both of which were blamed on the CIA... which advised against those actions)

Even if he did live, I don't think he could have gotten Congress to work with him.
LBJ had that power, and look at what he did. The War on Poverty was a failure, and we got so entrenched in Vietnam that it took until Nixon's second term to get us out.

PiEman wrote:Do you guys only base presidents on what they do to win wars, or help others with their wars?

Clinton did wonders for the economy, despite some early mistakes and failures in Somalia.
Yeah, and then he got us in again. Remember the Urban Reinvestment Act? That's what caused the Housing Crises.

Oh, and go watch "Primary Colors."

PiEman wrote:
*continued from before*
Bush seemed to have been doing fine in the beginning, and then 9/11 struck.
The country was in panic, and in 2003 we invaded Iraq, on the assumption that the Iraqis still had WMDs including chemical weapons.

However, Bush had overlooked the fact that most of Iraq's chemical arsenal had been bagged and tagged in the 90s by the U.N.
No, he didn't overlook it.
There was no evidence that Saddam didn't start production back up again. Besides, Clinton had to bomb him during the Lewenski Scandal because he wasn't in compliance with disarmament terms.

PiEman wrote:The British Media is heavy monitored by the state, and they're not exactly "free press".
They report primarily on the positive sides of the war, and just about everything else the government tells them to portray positively.
The article you read was probably British.
Pieman, you really need to stop watching "V for Vendetta."
Yes, the BBC is supported by the government, but they ain't censored like that.

PiEman wrote:I've heard statistics that say that something like 2/3rds of Iraqis want our troops dead. Not just gone, dead.
Many of them do want the protection, including their new government, but a majority wants us out so they can get right to killing eachother.
A majority wants peace. It's the minority that's out killing each other.
Iraqis don't like America in the same way many Americans don't care for China. BUT go out and ask them if they want America gone.
"Yes, America needs to go. Not now, but not ten years from now."

PiEman wrote:About the only thing we could do now, if you want to do something while the troops pull out, is divide the country into religiously divided provinces.
Yeah, that worked really frikken' well when the Hindus and the Muslims separated into India and Pakistan, didn't it. [/sarcasm]
You'd get more bloodshed in five months of that than five years of occupation. There would be NO MORE IRAQ, as the three states would dissolved into nation states, and then Syria and Iran would move in.

Really pretty.
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Post by PiEdude on Thu Feb 12, 2009 6:59 pm

Rasq'uire'laskar wrote:

I just... when I saw him after the inauguration, he was happy. It was like the burden of the whole world had been lifted off his shoulders, and he was free.
Go look at how much he's aged. It's amazing and sad at the same moment.
Yo see, I have the same problem arguing with you, that you do arguing with me.
You're clearly extremely biased towards Bush.

Rasq'uire'laskar wrote:
The War on Poverty was a failure, and we got so entrenched in Vietnam that it took until Nixon's second term to get us out.
You're fine with getting out of Veitnam, but not Iraq?

Rasq'uire'laskar wrote:
Yeah, and then he got us in again. Remember the Urban Reinvestment Act? That's what caused the Housing Crises.
I wasn't exactly politically active during Clinton's presidency, (mostly due to the fact that I started Kindergarten in his second to last year in office) but I've heard negative things from Republicans, and positive things from Democrats and Independants.

Rasq'uire'laskar wrote:
Oh, and go watch "Primary Colors."
That's like me asking you to go watch ".W".

Rasq'uire'laskar wrote:
No, he didn't overlook it.
There was no evidence that Saddam didn't start production back up again. Besides, Clinton had to bomb him during the Lewenski Scandal because he wasn't in compliance with disarmament terms.
There's also no evidence that he did because we didn't find any weapons.

Rasq'uire'laskar wrote:
Pieman, you really need to stop watching "V for Vendetta."
Yes, the BBC is supported by the government, but they ain't censored like that.
What about when they stopped showing documentaries on Ireland, and didn't report on the NRA terrorist attacks on Northern Ireland?
They didn't even let in a Star Trek episode until 2006 because it had references to "The Troubles" in it.

Rasq'uire'laskar wrote:
A majority wants peace. It's the minority that's out killing each other.
Iraqis don't like America in the same way many Americans don't care for China. BUT go out and ask them if they want America gone.
"Yes, America needs to go. Not now, but not ten years from now."
47 percent of Iraqis want US-led forces to leave Iraq immediately and 34 percent want the troops to leave when the security situation improves.
Not the statistic I was looking for, but still.

Rasq'uire'laskar wrote:
You'd get more bloodshed in five months of that than five years of occupation. There would be NO MORE IRAQ, as the three states would dissolved into nation states, and then Syria and Iran would move in.

Really pretty.
Either way, when we leave, whether it's another 10 years, or another 100 years, there wil be NO MORE IRAQ when we're gone.
We're better off getting out now to avoid more deaths.
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Post by Toaster on Thu Feb 12, 2009 7:07 pm

rasq wrote:A majority wants peace. It's the minority that's out killing each other.
Iraqis don't like America in the same way many Americans don't care for China. BUT go out and ask them if they want America gone.
"Yes, America needs to go. Not now, but not ten years from now."

It's sad really. In the beginning, the whole of Baghdad loved us, and was excited that we were there to help them. Unfortunately, once we running out their leader... we went on to dissolute all of their health-care, education, and historic facilities, as well as to disband their entire army, which was in full support of our cause.

We left the place in chaos, allowing for looters and criminals to go free. We did nothing to enforce the new establishment early on, and so all respect for our troops was lost. We left the majority of Baghdad's people unemployed. Desperate for leadership, they joined extremist groups.

I've never been against our reasoning for going to Iraq. I do not blame bush for being wrong about WMDs. I do blame him, and his administration, for utterly terrible execution.
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