Halo Wars Demo

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Post by Spartan15 on Sun Feb 01, 2009 5:25 pm

KrAzY wrote:
Vigil wrote:Yes, I had exactly the same thing. It's odd you didn't recieve a PM from Lethe, as he pursued me on the site, he sent two PM's to get my attention.

Have you checked them lately? If not, ask them for one.


lethe REALLY doesn't like me.... I have no clue why... but every time he has commented at me or anything it is always saying something either insulting or provoking me to say something to get me banned
And here was I thinking that Lethe didn't like Lod3x.
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Post by Dud Doodoo on Sun Feb 01, 2009 6:36 pm

I have a personal feud with lethe...

Plus I'm banned, so that's why I didn't get in. I am kinda anxious to try it out, but that's not surprising since I spent 2 of the 3 years I've been watching it being a complete fanboy.

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Post by Rasq'uire'laskar on Sun Feb 01, 2009 10:32 pm

Dud Doodoo wrote:I have a personal feud with lethe...

Plus I'm banned, so that's why I didn't get in. I am kinda anxious to try it out, but that's not surprising since I spent 2 of the 3 years I've been watching it being a complete fanboy.
Yes, I remember trying to beat that silly idea out of your head, that the PC is inherently inferior to the console.

As I recall, you stopped posting when I was starting to win.
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Post by Rotaretilbo on Sun Feb 01, 2009 10:59 pm

I got your PM Rasq, but I'll probably be writing my own, more in depth email to them late on.

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Post by KrAzY on Sun Feb 01, 2009 11:02 pm

I basically sent Rasq's after editing it a bit and writing a whole extra paragraph
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Post by Rasq'uire'laskar on Sun Feb 01, 2009 11:10 pm

Rotaretilbo wrote:I got your PM Rasq, but I'll probably be writing my own, more in depth email to them late on.
Mkay, could you remind me which one I sent to you? First sentence will suffice.

And be sure to send me yours once this is all done.

KrAzY wrote:I basically sent Rasq's after editing it a bit and writing a whole extra paragraph
I'd like to see the changes once this is all done.

Viva La REVOLUTION!
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Post by Rotaretilbo on Sun Feb 01, 2009 11:43 pm

Rasq'uire'laskar wrote:With the Cyro-bomb and Cyclops, one wonders if Ensemble Studios originally wanted to make Age of Mythology 2.

Rotaretilbo wrote:Well, after winning an early demo and sitting down and playing it, I'll give Ensemble Studios this: they really pulled off a console RTS. As far as gameplay goes, Halo Wars really hits the spot. Skirmish certainly was a lot more fun than I expected from the streamlined gunk that ES called an RTS. The economy was just intensive enough that it wasn't a completely spoon fed and the low pop cap made macro management generally easier. As far as gameplay goes, I have little bad to say.

Of course, then I recall that this is a Halo game we're talking about there, and frankly, the first Halo RTS should have been made by Bungie consulting ES, not the other way around. It is exceedingly clear that whatever little say Bungie had in this, it wasn't enough. I mean, where to start? Well, I suppose I can start with the issues that are clearly present in the demo and that are breaks with Halo continuity that cannot just be explained away.

That is to say, let's start with the SPARTAN-II. Well, for starters, he's got shields. But all Spartans have shields, you say? No, not so. The actuality is that the Spartans didn't get shields until right before the settings of Halo: Combat Evolved, same year even. As you may well know, Halo Wars takes place long before Halo: Combat Evolved, so what are Spartans doing with those shield thingies that didn't exist at the time? Well, according to ES, even though the shield bar is blue and even has the shield noises from the other Halo games, these Spartans are actually wearing regenerative armor. So, one must ask one's self, what is regenerative armor, because it is way beyond even the Covenant. Metal that regenerates itself? Unfathomable. Oh, but that's not all. You see, these Spartans also wield the M6, more lovingly known as the Spartan Laser. Yes, that's right, that experimental gun from Halo 3 that had only entered design as a concept around the time of Halo: Combat Evolved, which we've already established as taking place long after Halo Wars. So what is a gun that doesn't exist for another 20 years doing in Halo Wars? As far as I know, ES has offered no explanation for why. But wait, that isn't it. You may recall that some people were upset about the Spartans doing back flips before boarding and jacking Wraiths. Well, now they're vaulting through the air to jack Banshees and Vampires. That's right, in Halo Wars, the Spartan can jump up and jack a Banshee in mid-flight. And we aren't talking about low flying, either.

Which brings me to my next point. The Banshee. Remember e3 2007, when they displayed Halo Wars. In that final climactic battle, as they're brining in the Wolverines, notice the Banshees. That's right, they are actively strafing ground targets. They're flying around, never still, shooting at the targets. Well, that was dropped from Halo Wars. Now, Banshees just hover. I mean, sure, they have no means of hovering, and completely incapable of hovering, but hey, in Halo Wars, they can hover.

Now, let's move on to the less overt but more popular problems. I suppose I'll start with the Cyclops, which has been the subject of many a debate across the vast chasms of the Interwebz. Personally, I have less problems with it than most. The first thing I question is the name. Why would the UNSC name this thing a Cyclops. Now, if the armor was called CYCLOPS Armor, that would make sense, sort of, but just Cyclops? But, as we move past this, one must wonder, what is the Cyclops? The concept that ES puts forward is that it is a man in a suit, much like our beloved Spartans. Of course, as most know, MJOLNIR Armor is worn exclusively by Spartans because it is so powerful that normal humans can't control it, which normally results in movement so fast and uncontrollable that bones are shattered and the wearer killed. So we know that this isn't some kind of offshoot from the MJOLNIR Armor. Or is it? There were three generations of armor presumed to be part of the MJOLNIR project that were wearable. They were seen used by soldiers to train the Spartans in the early days of training. So why didn't these suits ever see combat? Simply, because they were energy hogs, and there was no viable way to get energy to the suit. They had to be directly tethered to a small but very heavy fusion reactor. Not exactly the most versatile accessory in combat. There was a single version of the suit that was supposed to incorporate technology used in the Super MAC stations that beamed energy from a nearby reactor to the suit. The idea was thrown out, because it required a special reactor be within a certain radius of the wearer for the suit to remain active. The Marine Corps doesn't exactly stay in one spot for long. The reason they are the major fighting unit of the UNSC is because they are flexible, can be deployed anywhere. Having to have a special reactor obviously puts a damper on the flexibility of a unit, after all. So, the suit was likely repurposed for heavy lifting. So far so good, right? Well, here's the thing. These suits were initially designed with weapons, and so when repurposing them for military use, the UNSC would almost definitely reequip the Cyclops with some sort of military weapon. Any marine can, at the very least, duct tape assault rifles to the hands and then run strings from the triggers to where there actual hands are. So, I take issue with the Cyclops being a melee unit. The UNSC doesn't use melee in combat because it is ineffective. Even in desperate times, a rifle is better than charging something and trying to smash it like the Incredible Hulk. That being said, the suit is much too large for even UNSC tastes. The suits described in Halo: The Fall of Reach are only slightly bulkier than their wearers. The suit certainly doesn't stand nearly twice as tall as a normal human. So I take issue with the weapons and the size of the unit. And that's being extremely gracious towards ES, since I kind of doubt they put half as much thought into the unit as I just did, since they defend it by simply saying Spartans are men in armor.

Next, I'd like to take a look at the Covenant and their shields. For starters, I was surprised to see the Wraith and the Ghost both given shields. I must say, if the Covenant had shielded vehicles back in 2531, why weren't we encountering them in the Halo games that all take place in 2552? A Ghost with shields hardly makes sense, since the shields hug the Ghost's hull, and the driver is outside of the Ghost. These shields would make it near impossible for the driver to control the Ghost, and would also provide the driver with no protection. Of course, the Locust also got a shield. But this shield doesn't resemble any kind of Covenant technology. It more resembles the bubble shield, an ONI breakthrough in 2552. And the crazy thing about the bubble shield was that it not only stopped things from coming in, but also from going out. Which is to say, the Locust's main weapon would be isolated to things within the bubble.

There was one other major thing that worried my about Halo Wars, something I didn't get much insight into from the demo. The Flood. My issue with the Flood in campaign can be simply put with this paradox. We have two juxtaposed facts.

Fact A: John SPARTAN-117, hero of the trilogy so far, had no knowledge of the Flood prior to 2552.

Fact B: Of the thirty-three SPARTAN-IIs that survived augmentation, as of August 30, 2552, 25 were present at the Battle of Reach, 3 were too far out of UNSC space to be easily recalled, two were confirmed KIA, two were MIA, and one was WIA.

Now, let's first look at Fact B first. We know that our WIA, Maria-062, wasn't killed, so let's look at the KIA and MIA. We have four potential KIAs, two confirmed, two unconfirmed. However, the two confirmed KIA don't take place during 2531 on Harvest. Sam-034 is killed over Chi Ceti IV in 2525 and Sheila is killed in the Battle of Miridem in 2544. Now, of the two MIA, Kurt-051 was kidnapped to train the SPARTAN-IIIs in 2531, and was thus not on Harvest. That leaves Randall as the only potential KIA that took place on Harvest in 2531. That means that, of the five SPARTAN-IIs on Harvest in Halo Wars, only one can die, his name has to be Randall, and his death has to leave plenty of room for doubt so that Halsey can later declare that Randall is one of the few actually MIA. Now, here's the paradox. That means that four SPARTAN-IIs returned to John-117, and apparently never spoke a word to their commanding officer, one of the very few people they even dared consider family, about a new xenomorphic race that could potentially threaten the galaxy. SPARTAN-IIs may be called wind-up toys, but there are no secrets between them. Four SPARTAN-IIs don't just keep their lips sealed about a new looming threat they discovered, and especially not to their commanding officer. So, now, we see that Fact A contradicts Halo Wars, because there is no way that four SPARTAN-IIs would not tell John-117 about the Flood, but no way to kill those four SPARTAN-IIs. And thus, if the SPARTAN-IIs have any contact with the Flood or with anyone that has had contact with the Flood, if Spartan Group Omega in any way hears of the Flood, Halo Wars falls out of continuity.

So, to summarize this email, since I frankly am not sure whether you'll even read it or not, Halo Wars brings some good gameplay to the table, but seriously lacks as far as understanding even the basics of Halo, when it comes to being a Halo game. I would be surprised to see the game completely and overtly contradict known canon in the story. I'm not holding my breath. But, because the word "Halo" is in the title, it will be bought, en masse. A shame, really, that the last game of Ensemble Studios, one of the greatest RTS makers alongside Blizzard and WestWood (RIP), must be a game that has been forced to wear a Halo template but knows little about Halo.

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Post by KristallNacht on Mon Feb 02, 2009 8:50 am

Vigil wrote:Well Paragon hates me, he's always shown me the cold shoulder. Every time I've asked him for help or asked him a question, he ignored me.

Funny, cause Paragon luvs me. We had plenty of long convos.

One time I asked him if he was broken cause he wasn't making sense, and he said he wasn't getting enough coffee and it was like 4am.
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Post by Gold Spartan on Mon Feb 02, 2009 8:53 pm

I might just buy this to see what it's like. Though it isnt one of my top priorities. (DoW2 and ETW MUST come first.)
EDIT: A better comp, I will also need. [/yoda]


Last edited by Gold Spartan5 on Mon Feb 02, 2009 8:58 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Dud Doodoo on Mon Feb 02, 2009 8:55 pm

ETW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Post by thane321 on Tue Feb 03, 2009 12:43 am

ETW??

i might get dow2 too
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Post by CivBase on Tue Feb 03, 2009 3:49 pm

Very nice e-mail rot. Got kinda lost at the whole spartan thing though... did you get this info from the books?

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Post by Gold Spartan on Tue Feb 03, 2009 3:49 pm

Empire Total War, the only TW game I think that will beat the awesomeness that is Rome Total War.
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Post by Rasq'uire'laskar on Tue Feb 03, 2009 6:57 pm

Meh, Gamepro just came out with a new issue... I guess we were too late... Unless their letters section operates just like every single other magazine in the US.

And there is a picture of a T-600 Infiltrator... all seven feet of it, with a gatling gun attatched to the arm...

Skynet must not have done enough research...
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Post by Kasrkin Seath on Thu Feb 05, 2009 4:51 pm

Is it just m, or does the Vehicle Depot look exactly like the GDI war factory in C&C 1. I mean, it has the smoke stacks, the door and the structure of it... Exactly. It gives me a feeling of Deja Vu
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Post by Rotaretilbo on Thu Feb 05, 2009 6:48 pm

Note: I've updated the topic post since ES released the game manual.

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Post by CivBase on Thu Feb 05, 2009 9:10 pm

Hmm, demo's pretty fun.

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Post by Onyxknight on Thu Feb 05, 2009 9:51 pm

the game is better than i inticapated.
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Post by Dud Doodoo on Thu Feb 05, 2009 10:02 pm

Agreed, although besides the warthog nothing looks like Halo...

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Post by KrAzY on Thu Feb 05, 2009 10:09 pm

it was okay


although even playing on heroic skirmish I had to hold back my troops so that I could actually fight units....


2 scarabs wins


50 grunt squads wins


if you get a second base and have it only producing rescources you can just sepecial power till you win (if UNSC just drop ODST's over and over and over....)

banshees + wraits = unstoppable if you have about 10 banshees and 5 wraiths





the UNSC is a little more balanced IMO

spartans are annoying to micromanage because at the size I stay zoomed out to they look EXACTLY like the marines


the MAC blast is WAY too weak... although its pretty good for takming out the prophet of regret (so much wrong with that statement)
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Post by Dud Doodoo on Thu Feb 05, 2009 10:31 pm

Once the UNSC gets ODSTs it's over... they can fight everything and fight it well. I don't even have to protect my base because if they attack I can just drop ODSTs as fast as I can press the button...

Heroic is too easy, the fight isn't too difficult until you get ODSTs, then it's effortless. I found that I could clear out the URF of an entire base using a single ODST squad, and with taking just about no casualties. Now imagine SPAMMING THE FUCK OUT OF EVERYTHING EVERYWHERE INSTANTLY WITHOUT SPENDING EXTRA MONEY!

Sadly there isn't much use in the elephant though, perhaps I will do more experimentation with it.

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Post by CivBase on Fri Feb 06, 2009 11:30 am

lol, Elephant + Ability to make ODSTs = GAME OVER

I haven't used ODSTs yet... are they in the demo? In fact, I haven't even been able to use a power yet... I've only played 2 games and the demo. Got whooped on the first game cuz I started on heroic without knowing how to play, and I had to stop a little into the second, before I even faught.

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Post by L0d3x on Fri Feb 06, 2009 4:10 pm

ODSTs don't look like ODSTs and all use shotguns. It does not make sense.
Ghosts are useless and even lose from infantry. The Vulture still looks stupid and clunky.

And there's alot of other small things like that that make it a bit of a disgrace to the halo universe, heck I didn't even see sniper marines.

But...

I must admit, that it all works great and is really fun. It's a solid console RTS and each faction differs enough to make it interesting. The game promises epic 3v3 multiplayer action.

So all in all, game is a blast, it just messes with Halo a little bit.

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Post by Dud Doodoo on Fri Feb 06, 2009 4:44 pm

CivBase wrote:lol, Elephant + Ability to make ODSTs = GAME OVER

I haven't used ODSTs yet... are they in the demo? In fact, I haven't even been able to use a power yet... I've only played 2 games and the demo. Got whooped on the first game cuz I started on heroic without knowing how to play, and I had to stop a little into the second, before I even faught.
You need to upgrade marines all the way, and there's no use for an elephant since you can spawn them INSTANTLY ANYWHERE using the powers menu.

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Post by CivBase on Fri Feb 06, 2009 5:15 pm

But the power only comes so often with so many marines. The elephant would also be a quick way to get infantry onto the battle when building other structures.

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